About the Navigator

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RGB.ES RGB.ES
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About the Navigator

A few ideas about how to improve the already wonderful Navigator:
https://sites.google.com/site/rgbmldcwriterideas/home/navigator
What do you think?
Cheers
Ricardo

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Irmhild Rogalla Irmhild Rogalla
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Re: About the Navigator

Hi,

Am 19.03.2011 10:06, schrieb RGB ES:
> A few ideas about how to improve the already wonderful Navigator:
> https://sites.google.com/site/rgbmldcwriterideas/home/navigator
> What do you think?

good idea.
I know and use the navigator, because I used go-OO for a long time, it's
very useful.
I like your improvement, but for me it seems to be better, if the levels
have the same (small) font size. Because my experience is, that in most
times, I used the navigator, there are really a lot of levels and so I
need (all) the place for the headings.
Furthermore: In most technical and science documents special heading
numbering is used (like 1. - 1.1 - 1.1.1 - 1.1.1.1 and so on) so the
levels are easy to distinguish without different formatting styles.

regards
        Irmhild


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RGB.ES RGB.ES
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Re: About the Navigator

2011/3/19 Irmhild Rogalla <[hidden email]>:

> good idea.
> I know and use the navigator, because I used go-OO for a long time, it's
> very useful.
> I like your improvement, but for me it seems to be better, if the levels
> have the same (small) font size. Because my experience is, that in most
> times, I used the navigator, there are really a lot of levels and so I need
> (all) the place for the headings.
> Furthermore: In most technical and science documents special heading
> numbering is used (like 1. - 1.1 - 1.1.1 - 1.1.1.1 and so on) so the levels
> are easy to distinguish without different formatting styles.
>
Good point! In an ideal situation this should be configurable, though:
for my part I like the formatting more, specially for those situation
on which numbering is not used ;)

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Jay Lozier Jay Lozier
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Re: About the Navigator

In reply to this post by RGB.ES
On Sat, 2011-03-19 at 10:06 +0100, RGB ES wrote:

> A few ideas about how to improve the already wonderful Navigator:
> https://sites.google.com/site/rgbmldcwriterideas/home/navigator
> What do you think?
> Cheers
> Ricardo
>

I think it is a good idea; I like giving users more granularity and
visual cues.
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Christoph Noack Christoph Noack
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Re: About the Navigator

In reply to this post by RGB.ES
Hi all!

Ricardo, cool that you bring fresh ideas ... maybe we can turn some of
them in EasyHacks ideas - that would be great!

Am Samstag, den 19.03.2011, 19:15 +0100 schrieb RGB ES:

> 2011/3/19 Irmhild Rogalla <[hidden email]>:
> > good idea.
> > I know and use the navigator, because I used go-OO for a long time, it's
> > very useful.
> > I like your improvement, but for me it seems to be better, if the levels
> > have the same (small) font size. Because my experience is, that in most
> > times, I used the navigator, there are really a lot of levels and so I need
> > (all) the place for the headings.
> > Furthermore: In most technical and science documents special heading
> > numbering is used (like 1. - 1.1 - 1.1.1 - 1.1.1.1 and so on) so the levels
> > are easy to distinguish without different formatting styles.
> >
> Good point! In an ideal situation this should be configurable, though:
> for my part I like the formatting more, specially for those situation
> on which numbering is not used ;)

It looks good at the first sight, because it addresses some shortcomings
that have been introduced within LibreOffice. But now I wonder ...

Besides all the improvements, what might happen with the concept:
      * The "double triangles" add a lot complexity (visually and
        functionality wise). And - in context next to the current
        heading they will work well - these triangles are new to users
        and duplicated for each of the headings. --> proposal below
      * Providing more visual clues:
              * The "lines" work well for a few entries, but will add a
                lot visual noise for many entries. The idea for better
                grouping is great, but maybe we can look at what others
                did (e.g. Microsoft grealty reworked the tree view for
                Windows Vista / 7). --> proposal: less lines (or lines
                only shown when the mouse hovers the Navigator), and
                more space between the entries
              * The "formatted entries" will work well in the Navigator,
                but they add another layer of inconsistency. Now we have
                simple lists of headings when using "cross-references",
                the formatting entries in the document text, and
                different formatting for the Navigator entries. -->
                proposal: use space instead of formatting
      * Making it configurable --> more complexity (although not needed)
      * I still a feature to tell the user where he currently is. That
        was always a bit difficult, because there is a difference
        between "select" an item (to apply a Navigator function), and to
        "highlight" an item that shows the current cursor position.

>From my point-of-view, the first step should be to resolve the issues
due to the combination of the "old" OOo functionality and the new
LibreOffice functionality.

Example1 : You can limit the shown heading levels to 5, although there
are 8 in the document. This will also restrict the presence of the
collapse/expand triangles for level 5? The user won't be able to see the
Why?

Example 2: If the user sets the "show all heading levels until 10", then
they won't appear - only the collapse/expand items will be shown. The
user now can manually open the levels ... grrrrr :-)

So, the "Show heading levels" dropdown "filter" should be converted into
a command list. So if the user sets "5", then all the headings until
level 5 should be expanded. All further levels will still be expandable
by the user. If the user sets "1", then all headings are collapsed but
the main headings. Still, the user may expand them manually - there is
no hidden pre-filtering.

Concerning the visibility of the heading level and the document
position, I've made a quick mockup how this might look like - although
it differs a bit from each of the used platforms. Still missing:
mouseover effects and the like.

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/JrW3M6h7wW5Mn2BP56UqMA?feat=directlink


By the way, some years ago, I've collected some ideas how a Navigator
might look like with an improved Notes/Comments view:
http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/File:Notes2_OtherIdeas_ManageNotes_Mockup_Navigator.png

Ricardo, I hope this still addresses the issues you've mentioned - from
my point-of-view it might behave a bit better and resolve other issues
as well. What do you think?

Cheers,
Christoph


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Jochen Schiffers Jochen Schiffers
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Re: About the Navigator

In reply to this post by RGB.ES
Hi,

Am 19.03.2011 10:06, schrieb RGB ES:
 > A few ideas about how to improve the already wonderful Navigator:
 > https://sites.google.com/site/rgbmldcwriterideas/home/navigator
 > What do you think?

I got your request/idea from the german discuss-ml. There I have
disussed an similar problem with navigator few days ago.
IMHO the "new" feature of the navigator (tree view) is very useful and I
see like a you a need for improvement to make navigator perfect.

But IHMO a different font size of the levels is not necessary.

Your idea "double triangles on the left" is very interesting.

My problem with the Navigator is that the level depth must be set in the
settings of the navigator: e.g. if level depth is 2 then only level 1
and 2 appear - and not Level 3, 4 ... To show this you have to open the
settings of the navigator and change the level depth.
I have solved the/my problem by setting the level depth always to 10.

regards

Jochen

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RGB.ES RGB.ES
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Re: About the Navigator

In reply to this post by Christoph Noack
I like your mok-up very much! My proposal was a starting point, and
you took it to a higher level! Thanks!

Yesterday came to my mind another idea about the navigator, this time
a new feature. Right now, you can drag-n-drop elements from the
navigator to the document in order to create copies or to insert
hyperlinks. Now, suppose that under the "Drag mode" menu you find an
option called "As cross reference": using it, when you drag-n-drop a
heading from the navigator a short menu appears showing some options
to insert cross-references. Something like:

Insert
-----------------------
Chapter name
Chapter number
Page number
Before/After

What do you think?
Cheers
Ricardo

2011/3/20 Christoph Noack <[hidden email]>:

> Hi all!
>
> Ricardo, cool that you bring fresh ideas ... maybe we can turn some of
> them in EasyHacks ideas - that would be great!
>
> Am Samstag, den 19.03.2011, 19:15 +0100 schrieb RGB ES:
>> 2011/3/19 Irmhild Rogalla <[hidden email]>:
>> > good idea.
>> > I know and use the navigator, because I used go-OO for a long time, it's
>> > very useful.
>> > I like your improvement, but for me it seems to be better, if the levels
>> > have the same (small) font size. Because my experience is, that in most
>> > times, I used the navigator, there are really a lot of levels and so I need
>> > (all) the place for the headings.
>> > Furthermore: In most technical and science documents special heading
>> > numbering is used (like 1. - 1.1 - 1.1.1 - 1.1.1.1 and so on) so the levels
>> > are easy to distinguish without different formatting styles.
>> >
>> Good point! In an ideal situation this should be configurable, though:
>> for my part I like the formatting more, specially for those situation
>> on which numbering is not used ;)
>
> It looks good at the first sight, because it addresses some shortcomings
> that have been introduced within LibreOffice. But now I wonder ...
>
> Besides all the improvements, what might happen with the concept:
>      * The "double triangles" add a lot complexity (visually and
>        functionality wise). And - in context next to the current
>        heading they will work well - these triangles are new to users
>        and duplicated for each of the headings. --> proposal below
>      * Providing more visual clues:
>              * The "lines" work well for a few entries, but will add a
>                lot visual noise for many entries. The idea for better
>                grouping is great, but maybe we can look at what others
>                did (e.g. Microsoft grealty reworked the tree view for
>                Windows Vista / 7). --> proposal: less lines (or lines
>                only shown when the mouse hovers the Navigator), and
>                more space between the entries
>              * The "formatted entries" will work well in the Navigator,
>                but they add another layer of inconsistency. Now we have
>                simple lists of headings when using "cross-references",
>                the formatting entries in the document text, and
>                different formatting for the Navigator entries. -->
>                proposal: use space instead of formatting
>      * Making it configurable --> more complexity (although not needed)
>      * I still a feature to tell the user where he currently is. That
>        was always a bit difficult, because there is a difference
>        between "select" an item (to apply a Navigator function), and to
>        "highlight" an item that shows the current cursor position.
>
> >From my point-of-view, the first step should be to resolve the issues
> due to the combination of the "old" OOo functionality and the new
> LibreOffice functionality.
>
> Example1 : You can limit the shown heading levels to 5, although there
> are 8 in the document. This will also restrict the presence of the
> collapse/expand triangles for level 5? The user won't be able to see the
> Why?
>
> Example 2: If the user sets the "show all heading levels until 10", then
> they won't appear - only the collapse/expand items will be shown. The
> user now can manually open the levels ... grrrrr :-)
>
> So, the "Show heading levels" dropdown "filter" should be converted into
> a command list. So if the user sets "5", then all the headings until
> level 5 should be expanded. All further levels will still be expandable
> by the user. If the user sets "1", then all headings are collapsed but
> the main headings. Still, the user may expand them manually - there is
> no hidden pre-filtering.
>
> Concerning the visibility of the heading level and the document
> position, I've made a quick mockup how this might look like - although
> it differs a bit from each of the used platforms. Still missing:
> mouseover effects and the like.
>
> https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/JrW3M6h7wW5Mn2BP56UqMA?feat=directlink
>
>
> By the way, some years ago, I've collected some ideas how a Navigator
> might look like with an improved Notes/Comments view:
> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/File:Notes2_OtherIdeas_ManageNotes_Mockup_Navigator.png
>
> Ricardo, I hope this still addresses the issues you've mentioned - from
> my point-of-view it might behave a bit better and resolve other issues
> as well. What do you think?
>
> Cheers,
> Christoph
>
>
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RGB.ES RGB.ES
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Re: About the Navigator

There is a potential usability problem with the navigator on LibO on
its current form. Suppose you have four levels of headings and you are
now on a level, say, three (a sub-subsection). Now, you want to go for
a moment to the top level for this part (the Chapter) and double click
on the corresponding entry on the navigator. You will be "teleported"
there... but the tree view for that entry will collapse, hiding the
sublevels.
The navigation toolbar I can see on the 3.4 development versions will
help you to return to the starting point, but I think that the tree
view should not collapse on that circumstance. I know that double
clicking is a standard way to "close" something, but IMO on this
common user case is counter productive.
Cheers
Ricardo

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Greg Lubel Greg Lubel
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Re: About the Navigator

In reply to this post by Irmhild Rogalla
Without wishing to rain on anyone's parade or do unsavoury things to
campfires, I think there's been a lot of great design thought here in
isolation of a good, hard, implementation agnostic think about enumerating the
real use cases.

When I say use cases, I don't mean anything to do with how to build it, what
looks pretty or cool but what REAL user goals need meeting, what tasks need
doing and which actors are involved. Then perhaps a check with users of Word
processors generally (i.e. not posters on this forum and not necessarily LibO
users only) about how well the proposed use cases would address any actual
need.

Of course, some may prefer an agile approach, with epics, and user stories and
acceptance tests, &c. but I don't think LibO development is organised that
way?

Until we've got some concrete, well written use cases validated with users,
the batting back and forth of designs and insiders' preferences seems a little
premature.

Incidentally, I don't think the use cases should be constrained by what the
current navigator's capabilities are.

I'm happy to get the ball rolling on the use case goals, to start with but
I'll wait to see what everyone thinks first.

Cheers,

Greg

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steveedmonds steveedmonds
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Re: About the Navigator

Hi Greg.
I think what you describe is what is needed to drive LO from the
enthusiasts arena to main stream adoption.
But as the enthusiasts are doing all the work, it requires good
management or they will no longer be enthusiastic.
steve

On 12/04/11 08:48, Greg wrote:

> Without wishing to rain on anyone's parade or do unsavoury things to
> campfires, I think there's been a lot of great design thought here in
> isolation of a good, hard, implementation agnostic think about enumerating the
> real use cases.
>
> When I say use cases, I don't mean anything to do with how to build it, what
> looks pretty or cool but what REAL user goals need meeting, what tasks need
> doing and which actors are involved. Then perhaps a check with users of Word
> processors generally (i.e. not posters on this forum and not necessarily LibO
> users only) about how well the proposed use cases would address any actual
> need.
>
> Of course, some may prefer an agile approach, with epics, and user stories and
> acceptance tests, &c. but I don't think LibO development is organised that
> way?
>
> Until we've got some concrete, well written use cases validated with users,
> the batting back and forth of designs and insiders' preferences seems a little
> premature.
>
> Incidentally, I don't think the use cases should be constrained by what the
> current navigator's capabilities are.
>
> I'm happy to get the ball rolling on the use case goals, to start with but
> I'll wait to see what everyone thinks first.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Greg
>
>  

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Christoph Noack Christoph Noack
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Re: About the Navigator

In reply to this post by RGB.ES
Hi Ricardo, all!

Hey, you seem to evolve to Mr. Navigator ... which is a great thing!

Am Sonntag, den 10.04.2011, 01:48 +0200 schrieb RGB ES:
> There is a potential usability problem with the navigator on LibO on
> its current form. Suppose you have four levels of headings and you are
> now on a level, say, three (a sub-subsection). Now, you want to go for
> a moment to the top level for this part (the Chapter) and double click
> on the corresponding entry on the navigator. You will be "teleported"
> there... but the tree view for that entry will collapse, hiding the
> sublevels.

Ouch.

> The navigation toolbar I can see on the 3.4 development versions will
> help you to return to the starting point, but I think that the tree
> view should not collapse on that circumstance. I know that double
> clicking is a standard way to "close" something, but IMO on this
> common user case is counter productive.

I share your thoughts ... that is counter-productive, since usual tree
views react on the very first click. In our case, we need the "selection
only" as well. So, from my point-of-view:
      * Click (on the Navigator text entry) --> Select
      * Double-Click (on the Navigator text entry) --> Jump

Ricardo, may I ask you to do me a favor? Could you please summarize the
things we've discussed so far - being usability issues - as an Easy Hack
(show headings drop-down, double-click behavior)? I currently really
lack the time to do so :-( The current Easy Hacks page looks like this:
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/Easy_Hacks

It would be great if developers could pick this ...

Cheers,
Christoph


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RGB.ES RGB.ES
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Re: About the Navigator

2011/4/11 Christoph Noack <[hidden email]>:
> Ricardo, may I ask you to do me a favor? Could you please summarize the
> things we've discussed so far - being usability issues - as an Easy Hack
> (show headings drop-down, double-click behavior)? I currently really
> lack the time to do so :-( The current Easy Hacks page looks like this:
> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/Easy_Hacks
>
> It would be great if developers could pick this ...
>
Ok, I'll try. But someone will need to correct my spaghetti English ;)

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Greg Lubel Greg Lubel
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Re: About the Navigator

In reply to this post by steveedmonds
Hi Steve,

I'm not clear what you mean. I think it's incontrovertably true in all
circumstances that understanding what users require (and in this case, using
use cases as an expression of those requirements) should always precede design
and implementation - That IS good management! Otherwise, the danger is that
the development will be done enthusiastically. It may or may not be right but
will be left as 'done' while the enthusiasm is applied to the next problem
rather than address shortcomings baked in by not considering requirements up-
front.

Cheers,

Greg

> Hi Greg.
> I think what you describe is what is needed to drive LO from the
> enthusiasts arena to main stream adoption.
> But as the enthusiasts are doing all the work, it requires good
> management or they will no longer be enthusiastic.
> steve
>
> On 12/04/11 08:48, Greg wrote:
> > Without wishing to rain on anyone's parade or do unsavoury things to
> > campfires, I think there's been a lot of great design thought here in
> > isolation of a good, hard, implementation agnostic think about
> > enumerating the real use cases.
> >
> > When I say use cases, I don't mean anything to do with how to build it,
> > what looks pretty or cool but what REAL user goals need meeting, what
> > tasks need doing and which actors are involved. Then perhaps a check
> > with users of Word processors generally (i.e. not posters on this forum
> > and not necessarily LibO users only) about how well the proposed use
> > cases would address any actual need.
> >
> > Of course, some may prefer an agile approach, with epics, and user
> > stories and acceptance tests, &c. but I don't think LibO development is
> > organised that way?
> >
> > Until we've got some concrete, well written use cases validated with
> > users, the batting back and forth of designs and insiders' preferences
> > seems a little premature.
> >
> > Incidentally, I don't think the use cases should be constrained by what
> > the current navigator's capabilities are.
> >
> > I'm happy to get the ball rolling on the use case goals, to start with
> > but I'll wait to see what everyone thinks first.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Greg

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Björn Balazs Björn Balazs
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Re: Re: [libreoffice-design] About the Navigator

Hi Greg,

currently the project is not in the state to have a common understanding of
who our users are and what they are supposed to do with the product(s) - and
esp. the other way round: who are not our users and what are they not supposed
to do with our product (Same with other important artefacts and the
development process itself).

But good news: we are in the process of sharpening these issues. See our
discussions on this mailing list about "Design Team Kick-Off". Perhaps you
could jump in there and help to build up the essentials we need?

Best,
Björn

Am Dienstag, 12. April 2011, 09:58:56 schrieb Greg:

> Hi Steve,
>
> I'm not clear what you mean. I think it's incontrovertably true in all
> circumstances that understanding what users require (and in this case, using
> use cases as an expression of those requirements) should always precede
> design and implementation - That IS good management! Otherwise, the danger
> is that the development will be done enthusiastically. It may or may not be
> right but will be left as 'done' while the enthusiasm is applied to the
> next problem rather than address shortcomings baked in by not considering
> requirements up- front.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Greg
>
> > Hi Greg.
> > I think what you describe is what is needed to drive LO from the
> > enthusiasts arena to main stream adoption.
> > But as the enthusiasts are doing all the work, it requires good
> > management or they will no longer be enthusiastic.
> > steve
> >
> > On 12/04/11 08:48, Greg wrote:
> > > Without wishing to rain on anyone's parade or do unsavoury things to
> > > campfires, I think there's been a lot of great design thought here
> > > in
> > > isolation of a good, hard, implementation agnostic think about
> > > enumerating the real use cases.
> > >
> > > When I say use cases, I don't mean anything to do with how to build
> > > it,
> > > what looks pretty or cool but what REAL user goals need meeting,
> > > what
> > > tasks need doing and which actors are involved. Then perhaps a check
> > > with users of Word processors generally (i.e. not posters on this
> > > forum
> > > and not necessarily LibO users only) about how well the proposed use
> > > cases would address any actual need.
> > >
> > > Of course, some may prefer an agile approach, with epics, and user
> > > stories and acceptance tests, &c. but I don't think LibO development
> > > is
> > > organised that way?
> > >
> > > Until we've got some concrete, well written use cases validated with
> > > users, the batting back and forth of designs and insiders'
> > > preferences
> > > seems a little premature.
> > >
> > > Incidentally, I don't think the use cases should be constrained by
> > > what
> > > the current navigator's capabilities are.
> > >
> > > I'm happy to get the ball rolling on the use case goals, to start
> > > with
> > > but I'll wait to see what everyone thinks first.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > >
> > > Greg

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Commercial Open Source Usability: http://www.OpenSource-Usability-Labs.com


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RGB.ES RGB.ES
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Re: About the Navigator

In reply to this post by Christoph Noack
2011/4/11 Christoph Noack <[hidden email]>:

> Ricardo, may I ask you to do me a favor? Could you please summarize the
> things we've discussed so far - being usability issues - as an Easy Hack
> (show headings drop-down, double-click behavior)? I currently really
> lack the time to do so :-( The current Easy Hacks page looks like this:
> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/Easy_Hacks
>
> It would be great if developers could pick this ...
>
> Cheers,
> Christoph
>

I made a quick draft summarizing the discussion on this thread:
https://sites.google.com/site/rgbmldcwriterideas/home/navigator/navigator-en.odt?attredirects=0&d=1
I reduced everything to three proposals:
- Change the tree view behaviour
- Reorganizing the way on which the info is presented (i.e. Christoph mock-up)
- My crazy idea about "drag-n-drop cross-references"
About adding this to the list of easy hacks... well, I'm not sure
*where* and, more important, I have no idea of the "needed skills" for
each proposal.
Cheers
Ricardo

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roman_sharp roman_sharp
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Re: Re: [libreoffice-design] About the Navigator

In reply to this post by Björn Balazs
I dare to say my concern and use case.

I'm working with OpenOffice for a few years with two types of documents: test specifications and test protocols. The first is a long-long-long document of hierarchical structure. In my current spec there are  27 chapters of test case list  and from 3 to 13 test cases in each chapter.

The protocol is spreadsheet, listing all that.  

The test specification is subject to often revisions and updates, and every time I have to check if the protocol is up-to-date with spec. It's important for me to see all the contents tree expanded, I don't want to have to expand each of 27 chapters manually every time.

So, when I didn't find "expand all tree" in LibreOffice, I had to go back to OpenOffice :( (sob).

I don't want to think that my problem is "too corporative for FOSS software", I think it's not that hard to give a user an option to preserve old contents tree behavior or a button(s) "expand all" - "collapse all" (FreeMind-style), or both. Of course, not every user has 27 chapters of from 3 to 13 test cases, but his document may be a book or what.

Thanks in advance :)
RGB.ES RGB.ES
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Re: About the Navigator

In reply to this post by RGB.ES
2011/4/13 RGB ES <[hidden email]>:

> I made a quick draft summarizing the discussion on this thread:
> https://sites.google.com/site/rgbmldcwriterideas/home/navigator/navigator-en.odt?attredirects=0&d=1
> I reduced everything to three proposals:
> - Change the tree view behaviour
> - Reorganizing the way on which the info is presented (i.e. Christoph mock-up)
> - My crazy idea about "drag-n-drop cross-references"
> About adding this to the list of easy hacks... well, I'm not sure
> *where* and, more important, I have no idea of the "needed skills" for
> each proposal.
> Cheers
> Ricardo
>

Not knowing which is the best place on the "easy hacks" page to put
these ideas, I filled three separated feature requests on Bugzilla:

[UI]Change behaviour for "tree view" on Writer's Navigator
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=36308

[UI]Better interface for Navigator's tree-view
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=36309

[EDITING]"Insert cross-reference" drag-n-drop mode for navigator
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=36310

feel free to comment (and implement! ;) ) them.
Cheers
Ricardo

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Christoph Noack Christoph Noack
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Re: About the Navigator

Hi Ricardo, all!

Ricardo, thanks for summarizing the proposals. Some of them have real
EasyHack quality, I think. I added some behavioral description to 36308
(the first one).

Since I don't know better (as well), I also forward your mail to the
developer list. Maybe they can suggest how to handle that - e.g.
additionally adding it to the EasyHacks list in the wiki.

Dear developers, the proposals address Navigator functionality ...

Am Samstag, den 16.04.2011, 22:33 +0200 schrieb RGB ES:

> 2011/4/13 RGB ES <[hidden email]>:
> > I made a quick draft summarizing the discussion on this thread:
> > https://sites.google.com/site/rgbmldcwriterideas/home/navigator/navigator-en.odt?attredirects=0&d=1
> > I reduced everything to three proposals:
> > - Change the tree view behaviour
> > - Reorganizing the way on which the info is presented (i.e. Christoph mock-up)
> > - My crazy idea about "drag-n-drop cross-references"
> > About adding this to the list of easy hacks... well, I'm not sure
> > *where* and, more important, I have no idea of the "needed skills" for
> > each proposal.

> Not knowing which is the best place on the "easy hacks" page to put
> these ideas, I filled three separated feature requests on Bugzilla:
>
> [UI]Change behaviour for "tree view" on Writer's Navigator
> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=36308
>
> [UI]Better interface for Navigator's tree-view
> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=36309
>
> [EDITING]"Insert cross-reference" drag-n-drop mode for navigator
> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=36310
>
> feel free to comment (and implement! ;) ) them.

Cheers,
Christoph


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frankt frankt
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Re: About the Navigator

In reply to this post by RGB.ES
Hi all,

Is the discussion or proposal closed? I've just started using LibO after many years of using OOo, and my experience with the navigator is such that I am thinking to go back to OOo. I am writing my PhD thesis and as many users above have mentioned, I have many heading levels (5). Whenever I need to jump to another heading to find some information, I need to click many times in order to open the needed heading level in one given category. Closing and reopening the navigator erases the previous view, and I have to start clicking once again. An "Expand All" option and a "Collapse All" option would fix the issue, as far as I am concerned. It's actually much faster to scroll down and up the nagivator screen than to click, click, and click. Of course, a better visual implementation would be welcome (as suggested by C. Noak).

What have been the answers from the developers?
RGB.ES RGB.ES
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Re: About the Navigator

2011/9/23 frankt <[hidden email]>

> Hi all,
>
> Is the discussion or proposal closed?


 AFAIK, the discussion is not closed. Maybe forgotten, but not closed ;)



> I've just started using LibO after
> many years of using OOo, and my experience with the navigator is such that
> I
> am thinking to go back to OOo. I am writing my PhD thesis and as many users
> above have mentioned, I have many heading levels (5). Whenever I need to
> jump to another heading to find some information, I need to click many
> times
> in order to open the needed heading level in one given category. Closing
> and
> reopening the navigator erases the previous view, and I have to start
> clicking once again. An "Expand All" option and a "Collapse All" option
> would fix the issue, as far as I am concerned. It's actually much faster to
> scroll down and up the nagivator screen than to click, click, and click. Of
> course, a better visual implementation would be welcome (as suggested by C.
> Noak).
>
> What have been the answers from the developers?
>
>
I do not know if this was discuss on the dev mailing lists, but there is no
activity on the issues.

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