Base - a risky feature of the document display?

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Harvey Nimmo Harvey Nimmo
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Base - a risky feature of the document display?

In initial Base view there is an area for showing the 'document' or
'none'. The default setting is 'none'. If however, the setting is
'document' and queries are selected, any query of the list is executed
as soon as the query is selected (not only on double-click). 

As it happens, one of the queries in my list is an UPDATE query (to be
executed in SQL) which resets the value of field in one of my tables.
Thus, if the 'document' display is set and I accidentally select this
UPDATE query, all the values in my table are reset without my noticing
it, since being an UPDATE query nothing is displayed.

I wonder if this implementation of the 'document' display isn't a bit
risky. What do people think? Is this a case for a feature request? And
what would the feature ask for?

Cheers
Harvey



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Alex Thurgood Alex Thurgood
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Re: Base - a risky feature of the document display?

Le 29/11/2017 à 12:27, Harvey Nimmo a écrit :


Hi Harvey,

Perhaps I am misunderstanding the issue here, but the panel you refer to
is only supposed to be a Preview of the document display. So, if you
execute a query then you get a preview of the result, which to me, would
seem to be "functioning as designed".

I'm slightly confused however that you write that you have an update
query in your list of "Queries" in the left hand pane. It was my
understanding that one couldn't establish UPDATE queries in this manner
and save them to the list of queries because the built-in query parser
would refuse to execute an update DML statement (even in "SQL direct"
mode). How exactly have you achieved this ?


Alex



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Harvey Nimmo Harvey Nimmo
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Re: Base - a risky feature of the document display?

Hi Alex,

The UPDATE query is allowed (i.e. stored in the queries list) if you
'edit in SQL view' and then set the 'Run SQL Command directly' in the
SQL editor. If you don't do it this way only SELECT queries are
permitted.

Cheers
Harvey




On Wed, 2017-11-29 at 14:34 +0100, Alexander Thurgood wrote:

> Le 29/11/2017 à 12:27, Harvey Nimmo a écrit :
>
>
> Hi Harvey,
>
> Perhaps I am misunderstanding the issue here, but the panel you refer
> to
> is only supposed to be a Preview of the document display. So, if you
> execute a query then you get a preview of the result, which to me,
> would
> seem to be "functioning as designed".
>
> I'm slightly confused however that you write that you have an update
> query in your list of "Queries" in the left hand pane. It was my
> understanding that one couldn't establish UPDATE queries in this
> manner
> and save them to the list of queries because the built-in query
> parser
> would refuse to execute an update DML statement (even in "SQL direct"
> mode). How exactly have you achieved this ?
>
>
> Alex
>
>
>

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Robert Großkopf Robert Großkopf
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Re: Base - a risky feature of the document display?

Hi Harvey,
>
> The UPDATE query is allowed (i.e. stored in the queries list) if you
> 'edit in SQL view' and then set the 'Run SQL Command directly' in the
> SQL editor. If you don't do it this way only SELECT queries are
> permitted.

If I try this the message appears:
Statement does not generate a result set.
Update wouldn't be performed.

Please post the code you are running and the version of LO, which you
are using.

Regards

Robert
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Harvey Nimmo Harvey Nimmo
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Re: Base - a risky feature of the document display?

On Wed, 2017-11-29 at 18:43 +0100, Robert Großkopf wrote:

> Hi Harvey,
> >
> >
> > The UPDATE query is allowed (i.e. stored in the queries list) if
> > you
> > 'edit in SQL view' and then set the 'Run SQL Command directly' in
> > the
> > SQL editor. If you don't do it this way only SELECT queries are
> > permitted.
>
> If I try this the message appears:
> Statement does not generate a result set.
> Update wouldn't be performed.
>
> Please post the code you are running and the version of LO, which you
> are using.

The query contains only the following statement:
UPDATE Family.Adressen SET Print_flag = FALSE;

LO Version 5.3.5.2 from OpenSuse on Linux

Cheers
Harvey 




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Harvey Nimmo Harvey Nimmo
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Re: Base - a risky feature of the document display?

In reply to this post by Robert Großkopf
On Wed, 2017-11-29 at 18:43 +0100, Robert Großkopf wrote:

> Hi Harvey,
> >
> >
> > The UPDATE query is allowed (i.e. stored in the queries list) if
> > you
> > 'edit in SQL view' and then set the 'Run SQL Command directly' in
> > the
> > SQL editor. If you don't do it this way only SELECT queries are
> > permitted.
>
> If I try this the message appears:
> Statement does not generate a result set.
> Update wouldn't be performed.
>
> Please post the code you are running and the version of LO, which you
> are using.

Sorry, I need to give a little more info.

I am accessing a backend Mariadb V10 on a backend server via
MySQL(Native).

The Base query contains only the following statement:
UPDATE Family.Adressen SET Print_flag = FALSE;

LO Version 5.3.5.2 from OpenSuse on Linux.

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Robert Großkopf Robert Großkopf
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Re: Base - a risky feature of the document display?

Hi Harvey,
>
> I am accessing a backend Mariadb V10 on a backend server via
> MySQL(Native).
>
> The Base query contains only the following statement:
> UPDATE Family.Adressen SET Print_flag = FALSE;
>
> LO Version 5.3.5.2 from OpenSuse on Linux.
>
Have tested this with nearly the same configuration (OpenSUSE 42.2, LO
5.4.3.2 and native connector).
You are right. It's possible to send an update to MariaDB whitout any
error-message.

Have tested the same with JDBC-connection to MariaDB. There it is
impossible to send an update. You get the message
...
Can not issue data manipulation statements with executeQuery()
...

It has never beeen intended that the query-editor is used for changing
data. There is a feature-request for this:
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=31398
since 7 years.
The risky feature is: the native connector of MySQL will allow this at
this moment.

If we write a bug-description about this the solution at this moment
could be the "feature" of the direct connection will be taken away
instead of changing something in the GUI, which works right with
internal Database and other external connectors.

Regards

Robert
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Alex Thurgood Alex Thurgood
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Re: Base - a risky feature of the document display?

Le 30/11/2017 à 15:50, Robert Großkopf a écrit :

> If we write a bug-description about this the solution at this moment
> could be the "feature" of the direct connection will be taken away
> instead of changing something in the GUI, which works right with
> internal Database and other external connectors.
>


Agreed.


Alex


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Harvey Nimmo Harvey Nimmo
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Re: Base - a risky feature of the document display?

In reply to this post by Robert Großkopf
On Thu, 2017-11-30 at 15:50 +0100, Robert Großkopf wrote:


> ...
>
> It has never beeen intended that the query-editor is used for
> changing
> data. There is a feature-request for this:
> https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=31398
> since 7 years.
> The risky feature is: the native connector of MySQL will allow this
> at
> this moment.
>
> If we write a bug-description about this the solution at this moment
> could be the "feature" of the direct connection will be taken away
> instead of changing something in the GUI, which works right with
> internal Database and other external connectors.

Obviously, I found this behaviour (by accident) because I was looking
for it, and because I needed it. Also obviously, my feeling is that
LOBase is not doing itself a favour by restricting usage of SQL in this
way. I would prefer a feature that allowed data manipulation via
queries, but caught risky situations with a warning, for example.

Or is there another simple way of data manipulation in LOBase, that
would not be easier by resorting to phpMyadmin or Mysql Workbench?

Regards
Harvey



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Robert Großkopf Robert Großkopf
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Re: Base - a risky feature of the document display?

Hi Harvey,
>
> Obviously, I found this behaviour (by accident) because I was looking
> for it, and because I needed it. Also obviously, my feeling is that
> LOBase is not doing itself a favour by restricting usage of SQL in this
> way. I would prefer a feature that allowed data manipulation via
> queries, but caught risky situations with a warning, for example.

What you perform with the query-editor isn't a query. A query shouldn't
change the content of any table. So you need another possibility to
update, insert or delete data through GUI, which must show a warning
like, for example, phpMyAdmin does. But remember: phpMyAdmin is a tool
for ADMINs, not for normal users of the DB.
>
> Or is there another simple way of data manipulation in LOBase, that
> would not be easier by resorting to phpMyadmin or Mysql Workbench?

At this moment:
Tools > SQL
or
A form through which you start macros for execute updates, insert or
delete. Could be you will save the SQL-code anywhere. I would prefer a
table with a varchar-field. The content of this field would be read by a
macro through the button and will be executed.

SUB ChangeData(oEvent as OBJECT)
        DIM oConnection AS OBJECT
        DIM oForm AS OBJECT
        DIM stSql AS STRING
        DIM oSql_Statement AS OBJECT
        oForm = oEvent.Source.Model.Parent
        oConnection = oForm.activeConnection()
        stSQL = oForm.getByName("SqlCode").CurrentValue
        oSQL_Statement = oConnection.createStatement()
        oSQL_Statement.executeUpdate(stSql)
END SUB

You could set a messagebox into this macro. So you will be able to
cancel the execution of the update/delete/insert

Regards

Robert
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Harvey Nimmo Harvey Nimmo
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Re: Base - a risky feature of the document display?

On Fri, 2017-12-01 at 19:56 +0100, Robert Großkopf wrote:

Hi Robert,

I appreciate your comments! Many thanks.

> What you perform with the query-editor isn't a query. A query
> shouldn't
> change the content of any table.

From a purist viewpoint, you are right, of course! My mind has been
damaged by MSAccess which does allow data manipulation via the query
editor.

> So you need another possibility to
> update, insert or delete data through GUI, which must show a warning
> like, for example, phpMyAdmin does. But remember: phpMyAdmin is a
> tool
> for ADMINs, not for normal users of the DB.

But phpMyAdmin it is a possibility which works. But my point here is
that it hardly speaks for LOBase, if I need to use another application
(e.g. phpMyadmin or Mysql Workbench) to do something simple, as in my
example.

> At this moment:
> Tools > SQL

Except that Tools > SQL apparently does not provide for storage and
recall of the SQL statements, unless I have missed something here.
Could be an alternative, if the Database objects pane were extended to
include stored SQL statements / procedures(?)

> or
> A form through which you start macros for execute updates, insert or
> delete. Could be you will save the SQL-code anywhere. I would prefer
> a
> table with a varchar-field. The content of this field would be read
> by a
> macro through the button and will be executed.
>
> SUB ChangeData(oEvent as OBJECT)
> DIM oConnection AS OBJECT
> DIM oForm AS OBJECT
> DIM stSql AS STRING
> DIM oSql_Statement AS OBJECT
> oForm = oEvent.Source.Model.Parent
> oConnection = oForm.activeConnection()
> stSQL = oForm.getByName("SqlCode").CurrentValue
> oSQL_Statement = oConnection.createStatement()
> oSQL_Statement.executeUpdate(stSql)
> END SUB
>
> You could set a messagebox into this macro. So you will be able to
> cancel the execution of the update/delete/insert
>
That is what I wanted to avoid, because of the relative complexity for
a rather simple operation. (Users would love LOBase if simple things
could be done simply, without having to burrow into the bowels of Macro
Basic or worse)

Regards
Harvey

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Alex Thurgood Alex Thurgood
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Re: Base - a risky feature of the document display?

Le 01/12/2017 à 23:08, Harvey Nimmo a écrit :

Hi Harvey,

You are correct, it would improve the user experience of Base by an
important measure to have a GUI UPDATE capability. This is something
that has been desired by users since the days of StarOffice, through
OpenOffice.org to the present day with LibreOffice. We're looking at a
period of over 20 years here.

As of yet, no developer has stepped up to the plate to provide that
functionality, bearing in mind that the precursors to LibreOffice were
curated by some rather large corporations, it could have been done, but
sadly never was. The fact of the matter is that Base is still rather the
"runt" of LO development. One of the reasons for this is no doubt the
complexity of having to understand both database programming principles
and specificities and the LO code behind Base itself. There are easier
targets for developers to pick and choose, and so these tend to get
chosen over something meatier like what you are asking for.

Currently, Base development goes in fits and starts. Current Firebird
integration was the result of at least one GSOC project (two or three in
fact, I seem to recall). The fact that the transition to Firebird as the
default embedded database engine is still not complete, is an indication
of the lack of interest in seeing things through, unfortunate though
that may be.

There are several other areas where Base development could do with a
serious boost, but unless developers can be attracted to them, very
little will change. Some of the core developers working on other areas
of LO never touch anything database-related and in their humble opinions
if Base were to disappear in a puff of smoke, they wouldn't be
particularly saddened. Indeed, they would probably be happier that the
code had been lightened by several tens of thousands of lines of code,
and not least, be rid of all Java dependencies.


So, you see, it is an uphill battle just to keep what we have, let alone
develop new features for it.



Alex


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Harvey Nimmo Harvey Nimmo
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Re: Base - a risky feature of the document display?

On Sat, 2017-12-02 at 10:42 +0100, Alexander Thurgood wrote:

> Le 01/12/2017 à 23:08, Harvey Nimmo a écrit :
>
> Hi Harvey,
>
> You are correct, it would improve the user experience of Base by an
> important measure to have a GUI UPDATE capability. This is something
> that has been desired by users since the days of StarOffice, through
> OpenOffice.org to the present day with LibreOffice. We're looking at
> a
> period of over 20 years here.
>
> As of yet, no developer has stepped up to the plate to provide that
> functionality, bearing in mind that the precursors to LibreOffice
> were
> curated by some rather large corporations, it could have been done,
> but
> sadly never was. The fact of the matter is that Base is still rather
> the
> "runt" of LO development. One of the reasons for this is no doubt the
> complexity of having to understand both database programming
> principles
> and specificities and the LO code behind Base itself. There are
> easier
> targets for developers to pick and choose, and so these tend to get
> chosen over something meatier like what you are asking for.
>
> Currently, Base development goes in fits and starts. Current Firebird
> integration was the result of at least one GSOC project (two or three
> in
> fact, I seem to recall). The fact that the transition to Firebird as
> the
> default embedded database engine is still not complete, is an
> indication
> of the lack of interest in seeing things through, unfortunate though
> that may be.
>
> There are several other areas where Base development could do with a
> serious boost, but unless developers can be attracted to them, very
> little will change. Some of the core developers working on other
> areas
> of LO never touch anything database-related and in their humble
> opinions
> if Base were to disappear in a puff of smoke, they wouldn't be
> particularly saddened. Indeed, they would probably be happier that
> the
> code had been lightened by several tens of thousands of lines of
> code,
> and not least, be rid of all Java dependencies.
>
>
> So, you see, it is an uphill battle just to keep what we have, let
> alone
> develop new features for it.
>
>
>
> Alex
>

Ah...thank you Alex. What a pity, all those programmers are missing a
wonderful opportunity to give someone joy in life!! ;-)

Cheers
Harvey


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Robert Großkopf Robert Großkopf
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Re: Base - a risky feature of the document display?

In reply to this post by Harvey Nimmo
Hi Harvey,

here is a little example-database for executing SQL by a macro.
http://robert.familiegrosskopf.de/download/Example_InsertUpdateDelete_SQL.odb
Open the form and try. Could be constructed a little bit better, but
works when code is right.

Regards

Robert
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Harvey Nimmo Harvey Nimmo
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Re: Base - a risky feature of the document display?

On Sat, 2017-12-02 at 20:57 +0100, Robert Großkopf wrote:

> Hi Harvey,
>
> here is a little example-database for executing SQL by a macro.
> http://robert.familiegrosskopf.de/download/Example_InsertUpdateDelete
> _SQL.odb
> Open the form and try. Could be constructed a little bit better, but
> works when code is right.
>
> Regards
>
> Robert

Hi Robert,

I think I can see what you are trying to do, but nothing happens on
clicking the button. The values of 'class' remain fixed at 1,3,2. Also
I get no messages like warning of macro execution. (Macro Security
level Medium)

Cheers
Harvey

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Robert Großkopf Robert Großkopf
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Re: Base - a risky feature of the document display?

Hi Harvey,

>>
>> here is a little example-database for executing SQL by a macro.
>> http://robert.familiegrosskopf.de/download/Example_InsertUpdateDelete
>> _SQL.odb
>> Open the form and try. Could be constructed a little bit better, but
>> works when code is right.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Robert
>
> Hi Robert,
>
> I think I can see what you are trying to do, but nothing happens on
> clicking the button.

First there should appear a messagebox with question: "Should the code
... be executed?"
If you click "yes" here the update will be executed.

> The values of 'class' remain fixed at 1,3,2. Also
> I get no messages like warning of macro execution. (Macro Security
> level Medium)

I have the same: Security medium, my only documents in Trusted Sources >
Trusted File Locations.

Macro will be executed here and update to 2,4,3 will be executed.

Don't know what is going wrong there with your installation.

If you have opened the table at the same time you have to refresh the
data of the table afterwords - but if you don't see the messagebox there
is something totally wrong with macro-executing.

Regards

Robert
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Harvey Nimmo Harvey Nimmo
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Re: Base - a risky feature of the document display?

On Sun, 2017-12-03 at 09:37 +0100, Robert Großkopf wrote:


> > Hi Robert,
> >
> > I think I can see what you are trying to do, but nothing happens on
> > clicking the button. 
>
> First there should appear a messagebox with question: "Should the
> code
> ... be executed?"
> If you click "yes" here the update will be executed.
>
> >
> > The values of 'class' remain fixed at 1,3,2. Also
> > I get no messages like warning of macro execution. (Macro Security
> > level Medium)
>
> I have the same: Security medium, my only documents in Trusted
> Sources >
> Trusted File Locations.
>
> Macro will be executed here and update to 2,4,3 will be executed.
>
> Don't know what is going wrong there with your installation.
>
> If you have opened the table at the same time you have to refresh the
> data of the table afterwords - but if you don't see the messagebox
> there
> is something totally wrong with macro-executing.
>
Hi Robert,

I fear that you are right, there is something totally wrong with the
macro. Another reason for not wanting to go that way.

Cheers
Harvey

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Re: Base - a risky feature of the document display?

Macro will be executed here and update to 2,4,3 will be executed.
Hallo Robert,

> > Don't know what is going wrong there with your installation.
> >
> > If you have opened the table at the same time you have to refresh
> > the
> > data of the table afterwords - but if you don't see the messagebox
> > there
> > is something totally wrong with macro-executing.
> >
> Hi Robert,
>
> I fear that you are right, there is something totally wrong with the
> macro. Another reason for not wanting to go that way.

I've got it. The hsqldb driver pool had to be enabled in the Base
options settings.

Cheers
Harvey

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Robert Großkopf Robert Großkopf
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Re: Base - a risky feature of the document display?

Hi Harvey,
>
> I've got it. The hsqldb driver pool had to be enabled in the Base
> options settings.

Have never touched there anything. The conneection-pool is disabled here.
Do you use the LO-version from OpenSUSE or do you use LO downloded
directly from LO-website?

I prefer the version from LO directly and test all with this versions.

Regards

Robert
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Harvey Nimmo Harvey Nimmo
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Re: Base - a risky feature of the document display?

On Sun, 2017-12-03 at 16:48 +0100, Robert Großkopf wrote:

> Hi Harvey,
> >
> >
> > I've got it. The hsqldb driver pool had to be enabled in the Base
> > options settings.
>
> Have never touched there anything. The conneection-pool is disabled
> here.
> Do you use the LO-version from OpenSUSE or do you use LO downloded
> directly from LO-website?
>
> I prefer the version from LO directly and test all with this
> versions.

I always use the OpenSuse packages unless I need something they don't
have.

Cheers
Harvey

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