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ahmad ahmad
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Default Writer Template

Hi,

Please have a look at the template attached to this email, I need your thoughts about it before Thursday 10th.

If nobody have comments on this one, I'll push it to the master.



   Ahmad
Warning: This message and its attachment, if any, are confidential and may contain information protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and delete the message and its attachment, if any. You should not copy the message and its attachment, if any, or disclose its contents to any other person or use it for any purpose. Statements and opinions expressed in this e-mail and its attachment, if any, are those of the sender, and do not necessarily reflect those of King Abdulaziz city for Science and Technology (KACST) in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. KACST accepts no liability for any damage caused by this email.

تحذير: هذه الرسالة وما تحويه من مرفقات (إن وجدت) تمثل وثيقة سرية قد تحتوي على معلومات محمية بموجب القانون. إذا لم تكن الشخص المعني بهذه الرسالة فيجب عليك تنبيه المُرسل بخطأ وصولها إليك، وحذف الرسالة ومرفقاتها (إن وجدت)، ولا يجوز لك نسخ أو توزيع هذه الرسالة أو مرفقاتها (إن وجدت) أو أي جزء منها، أو البوح بمحتوياتها للغير أو استعمالها لأي غرض. علماً بأن فحوى هذه الرسالة ومرفقاتها (ان وجدت) تعبر عن رأي المُرسل وليس بالضرورة رأي مدينة الملك عبدالعزيز للعلوم والتقنية بالمملكة العربية السعودية، ولا تتحمل المدينة أي مسئولية عن الأضرار الناتجة عن ما قد يحتويه هذا البريد.


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Adolfo Jayme Barrientos-3 Adolfo Jayme Barrientos-3
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Re: Default Writer Template

Hi Ahmad, the list doesn't seem to accept attachments -- please upload
it elsewhere and post a link to it here :-)

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Samuel Mehrbrodt-2 Samuel Mehrbrodt-2
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Re: Default Writer Template

In reply to this post by ahmad
Hi,

Please upload the template somewhere (in the wiki for example), or
create a bug report for it.
This list doesn't allow attachments

Thanks
Samuel

Am 03.10.2013 22:20, schrieb Ahmad Hussein Al-Harthi:
> Hi,
>
> Please have a look at the template attached to this email, I need your thoughts about it before Thursday 10th.
>
> If nobody have comments on this one, I'll push it to the master.


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ahmad ahmad
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RE: Default Writer Template

This is the link:
    https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/images/2/20/Default_Writer_Sans_Template_0.1.ott

   Ahmad
Warning: This message and its attachment, if any, are confidential and may contain information protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and delete the message and its attachment, if any. You should not copy the message and its attachment, if any, or disclose its contents to any other person or use it for any purpose. Statements and opinions expressed in this e-mail and its attachment, if any, are those of the sender, and do not necessarily reflect those of King Abdulaziz city for Science and Technology (KACST) in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. KACST accepts no liability for any damage caused by this email.

تحذير: هذه الرسالة وما تحويه من مرفقات (إن وجدت) تمثل وثيقة سرية قد تحتوي على معلومات محمية بموجب القانون. إذا لم تكن الشخص المعني بهذه الرسالة فيجب عليك تنبيه المُرسل بخطأ وصولها إليك، وحذف الرسالة ومرفقاتها (إن وجدت)، ولا يجوز لك نسخ أو توزيع هذه الرسالة أو مرفقاتها (إن وجدت) أو أي جزء منها، أو البوح بمحتوياتها للغير أو استعمالها لأي غرض. علماً بأن فحوى هذه الرسالة ومرفقاتها (ان وجدت) تعبر عن رأي المُرسل وليس بالضرورة رأي مدينة الملك عبدالعزيز للعلوم والتقنية بالمملكة العربية السعودية، ولا تتحمل المدينة أي مسئولية عن الأضرار الناتجة عن ما قد يحتويه هذا البريد.


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Samuel Mehrbrodt-2 Samuel Mehrbrodt-2
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Re: Default Writer Template

In reply to this post by ahmad
I like it that you use a sans-serif font now.
Are there any other options but "Liberation Sans"? I guess the choice is
very limited because we need to support many languages.

My personal preferences are

  * For headings: "Open Sans" or "Source Sans Pro" (because they have
    many weights (Light, Normal, Semibold, Bold, Extrabold))
  * For continous text Gentium or "Linux Libertine".
  * For shorter texts "Open Sans".


What do others think?

Thanks
Samuel

Am 03.10.2013 22:20, schrieb Ahmad Hussein Al-Harthi:

> Hi,
>
> Please have a look at the template attached to this email, I need your thoughts about it before Thursday 10th.
>
> If nobody have comments on this one, I'll push it to the master.
>
>
>
>     Ahmad
> Warning: This message and its attachment, if any, are confidential and may contain information protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and delete the message and its attachment, if any. You should not copy the message and its attachment, if any, or disclose its contents to any other person or use it for any purpose. Statements and opinions expressed in this e-mail and its attachment, if any, are those of the sender, and do not necessarily reflect those of King Abdulaziz city for Science and Technology (KACST) in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. KACST accepts no liability for any damage caused by this email.
>
> تحذير: هذه الرسالة وما تحويه من مرفقات (إن وجدت) تمثل وثيقة سرية قد تحتوي على معلومات محمية بموجب القانون. إذا لم تكن الشخص المعني بهذه الرسالة فيجب عليك تنبيه المُرسل بخطأ وصولها إليك، وحذف الرسالة ومرفقاتها (إن وجدت)، ولا يجوز لك نسخ أو توزيع هذه الرسالة أو مرفقاتها (إن وجدت) أو أي جزء منها، أو البوح بمحتوياتها للغير أو استعمالها لأي غرض. علماً بأن فحوى هذه الرسالة ومرفقاتها (ان وجدت) تعبر عن رأي المُرسل وليس بالضرورة رأي مدينة الملك عبدالعزيز للعلوم والتقنية بالمملكة العربية السعودية، ولا تتحمل المدينة أي مسئولية عن الأضرار الناتجة عن ما قد يحتويه هذا البريد.
>
>


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mirek2 mirek2
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Re: Default Writer Template

In reply to this post by ahmad
Hi Ahmad,
Could you detail all the changes you made?
My first impressions:
I like the clearer heading separation (no longer guessing if the italicized
heading is superior or inferior), but I don't like the decreased font size
for headings. How about starting with 18 pt for Heading 1, then 16, 14, 13,
12, 11 for the consecutive headings?
I really like the space after a paragraph. While you're at it, could you
make the line-spacing proportional at 120%, as recommended by Butterick's
Practical Typography [1]
The subtitle feels much too far from the title -- could it be brought a bit
closer?
I'm not sure what to think about a Liberation Sans by default. I kind of
liked the separation between headings and body text we had going.
While trying to see what the document would look like with Liberation Serif
for headings, I discovered that changing font of the Headings style did
nothing -- the font is set for each heading style separately. This should
be fixed -- the font family and style should be set for the Headings style
only.

[1] http://practicaltypography.com/summary-of-key-rules.html


2013/10/3 Ahmad Hussein Al-Harthi <[hidden email]>

> This is the link:
>
> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/images/2/20/Default_Writer_Sans_Template_0.1.ott
>
>    Ahmad
> Warning: This message and its attachment, if any, are confidential and may
> contain information protected by law. If you are not the intended
> recipient, please contact the sender immediately and delete the message and
> its attachment, if any. You should not copy the message and its attachment,
> if any, or disclose its contents to any other person or use it for any
> purpose. Statements and opinions expressed in this e-mail and its
> attachment, if any, are those of the sender, and do not necessarily reflect
> those of King Abdulaziz city for Science and Technology (KACST) in the
> Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. KACST accepts no liability for any damage caused
> by this email.
>
> تحذير: هذه الرسالة وما تحويه من مرفقات (إن وجدت) تمثل وثيقة سرية قد تحتوي
> على معلومات محمية بموجب القانون. إذا لم تكن الشخص المعني بهذه الرسالة فيجب
> عليك تنبيه المُرسل بخطأ وصولها إليك، وحذف الرسالة ومرفقاتها (إن وجدت)، ولا
> يجوز لك نسخ أو توزيع هذه الرسالة أو مرفقاتها (إن وجدت) أو أي جزء منها، أو
> البوح بمحتوياتها للغير أو استعمالها لأي غرض. علماً بأن فحوى هذه الرسالة
> ومرفقاتها (ان وجدت) تعبر عن رأي المُرسل وليس بالضرورة رأي مدينة الملك
> عبدالعزيز للعلوم والتقنية بالمملكة العربية السعودية، ولا تتحمل المدينة أي
> مسئولية عن الأضرار الناتجة عن ما قد يحتويه هذا البريد.
>
>
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mirek2 mirek2
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Re: Default Writer Template

In reply to this post by Samuel Mehrbrodt-2
Hi Samuel,

On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 11:49 PM, Samuel Mehrbrodt <[hidden email]>wrote:

> I like it that you use a sans-serif font now.
> Are there any other options but "Liberation Sans"? I guess the choice is
> very limited because we need to support many languages.
>
> My personal preferences are
>
>  * For headings: "Open Sans" or "Source Sans Pro" (because they have
>    many weights (Light, Normal, Semibold, Bold, Extrabold))
>  * For continous text Gentium or "Linux Libertine".
>  * For shorter texts "Open Sans".
>
>
> What do others think?


While I myself would love having a different default font, we've talked to
the Engineering Steering Committee and, unfortunately, it's been decided
that we stay with Liberation fonts. These fonts have the same metrics as
Times New Roman, Arial, and Courier, which are basically on every operating
system (if not those fonts, then their counterparts). Using these fonts
guarantees that the documents keep the same layout on any platform.

>
> Thanks
> Samuel
>

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Niklas Johansson Niklas Johansson
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Re: Default Writer Template

In reply to this post by ahmad
Hi

First of all, thank you for working on this. I will be glad to see the
italic headings go. Heres a few comments on the template as is:
- I see that you choose to have the same distance before each level of
heading, which looks good when you list the headings after each other,
but I believe you would get a better destinction between the levels by
adding a larger distance before heading 1 than heading 2 etc.

- Could you modify the character style named placeholder. Change color
from turquoise to red (or some other color you see fitting). I usually
change so it doesn't use small capitals and also remove the dotted
underline. This makes the placeholders easier to read and is not needed
to differentiate the placeholders from the rest of the text.

- Don't forget to revisit Mirek's comments on line-spacing and spacing
between the title and the subtitle.

Looking forward to having this pushed.

Best regards,
Niklas Johansson

Ahmad Hussein Al-Harthi skrev 2013-10-03 22:20:

> Hi,
>
> Please have a look at the template attached to this email, I need your thoughts about it before Thursday 10th.
>
> If nobody have comments on this one, I'll push it to the master.
>
>
>
>     Ahmad
> Warning: This message and its attachment, if any, are confidential and may contain information protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and delete the message and its attachment, if any. You should not copy the message and its attachment, if any, or disclose its contents to any other person or use it for any purpose. Statements and opinions expressed in this e-mail and its attachment, if any, are those of the sender, and do not necessarily reflect those of King Abdulaziz city for Science and Technology (KACST) in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. KACST accepts no liability for any damage caused by this email.
>
> تحذير: هذه الرسالة وما تحويه من مرفقات (إن وجدت) تمثل وثيقة سرية قد تحتوي على معلومات محمية بموجب القانون. إذا لم تكن الشخص المعني بهذه الرسالة فيجب عليك تنبيه المُرسل بخطأ وصولها إليك، وحذف الرسالة ومرفقاتها (إن وجدت)، ولا يجوز لك نسخ أو توزيع هذه الرسالة أو مرفقاتها (إن وجدت) أو أي جزء منها، أو البوح بمحتوياتها للغير أو استعمالها لأي غرض. علماً بأن فحوى هذه الرسالة ومرفقاتها (ان وجدت) تعبر عن رأي المُرسل وليس بالضرورة رأي مدينة الملك عبدالعزيز للعلوم والتقنية بالمملكة العربية السعودية، ولا تتحمل المدينة أي مسئولية عن الأضرار الناتجة عن ما قد يحتويه هذا البريد.
>
>


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ahmad ahmad
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RE: Default Writer Template

In reply to this post by mirek2
Hi,



I've considered most of your comments in this template, please tell me what you think.



Try to use it as if you're typing a new document please.




Changes:
- Grayscale headings
- Space before and after heading is getting less when you go down on levels
- Placeholder color changed to "Dark Violet"
- Line Spacing set to 120% proportional


Please tell me what you think, I'll push it tomorrow night, we'll be able to change it after that, so don't worry ;)


    Ahmad
Warning: This message and its attachment, if any, are confidential and may contain information protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and delete the message and its attachment, if any. You should not copy the message and its attachment, if any, or disclose its contents to any other person or use it for any purpose. Statements and opinions expressed in this e-mail and its attachment, if any, are those of the sender, and do not necessarily reflect those of King Abdulaziz city for Science and Technology (KACST) in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. KACST accepts no liability for any damage caused by this email.

?????: ??? ??????? ??? ????? ?? ?????? (?? ????) ???? ????? ???? ?? ????? ??? ??????? ????? ????? ???????. ??? ?? ??? ????? ?????? ???? ??????? ???? ???? ????? ??????? ???? ?????? ????? ???? ??????? ????????? (?? ????)? ??? ???? ?? ??? ?? ????? ??? ??????? ?? ???????? (?? ????) ?? ?? ??? ????? ?? ????? ?????????? ????? ?? ????????? ??? ???. ????? ??? ???? ??? ??????? ????????? (?? ????) ???? ?? ??? ??????? ???? ???????? ??? ????? ????? ????????? ?????? ???????? ???????? ??????? ????????? ??? ????? ??????? ?? ??????? ?? ??????? ??????? ?? ?? ?? ?????? ??? ??????.


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ahmad ahmad
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RE: Default Writer Template

Sorry, I forgot to add the link again...



https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/images/3/37/Default_Writer_Sans_Template_0.2.ott





    Ahmad
Warning: This message and its attachment, if any, are confidential and may contain information protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and delete the message and its attachment, if any. You should not copy the message and its attachment, if any, or disclose its contents to any other person or use it for any purpose. Statements and opinions expressed in this e-mail and its attachment, if any, are those of the sender, and do not necessarily reflect those of King Abdulaziz city for Science and Technology (KACST) in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. KACST accepts no liability for any damage caused by this email.

?????: ??? ??????? ??? ????? ?? ?????? (?? ????) ???? ????? ???? ?? ????? ??? ??????? ????? ????? ???????. ??? ?? ??? ????? ?????? ???? ??????? ???? ???? ????? ??????? ???? ?????? ????? ???? ??????? ????????? (?? ????)? ??? ???? ?? ??? ?? ????? ??? ??????? ?? ???????? (?? ????) ?? ?? ??? ????? ?? ????? ?????????? ????? ?? ????????? ??? ???. ????? ??? ???? ??? ??????? ????????? (?? ????) ???? ?? ??? ??????? ???? ???????? ??? ????? ????? ????????? ?????? ???????? ???????? ??????? ????????? ??? ????? ??????? ?? ??????? ?? ??????? ??????? ?? ?? ?? ?????? ??? ??????.


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Sveinn í Felli Sveinn í Felli
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Re: Default Writer Template

In reply to this post by mirek2
Þann mið  9.okt 2013 20:37, skrifaði Ahmad Hussein Al-Harthi:

> Hi,
>
> I've considered most of your comments in this template,
> please tell me what you think.
>
> Try to use it as if you're typing a new document please.
>
> Changes: - Grayscale headings - Space before and after
> heading is getting less when you go down on levels -
> Placeholder color changed to "Dark Violet" - Line Spacing
> set to 120% proportional
>
> Please tell me what you think, I'll push it tomorrow
> night, we'll be able to change it after that, so don't
> worry ;)
>

Just a couple of observations:

There's not much difference between Title and Heading1;
could Title go up to, say 24pts ?

Spacing between number and beginning of text in a numbered
list is fine, but to me it seems a bit too wide in a
bulleted list. Anyone else thinking the same ?

Also think we should test the grayscale range in headings on
a low grade laser printer, 40% gray may be difficult to read
in such a printout.

Otherwise I think it's quite clean and logical.

Regards,

Sveinn


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mirek2 mirek2
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Re: Default Writer Template

In reply to this post by ahmad
Hi Ahmad,
It's better. Thanks for adding the proportional line spacing.
I still don't understand the non-whole-number point sizes (which aren't
even part of the font size dropdown) -- what is the reasoning for that?
As I said in my earlier message, the font for headings should be definded
in the Heading style only, not in each heading style, and I'd prefer it if
the headings were all in Liberation Serif, to contrast with the body text.
I like the differing heading colors, but:
a) the Heading 4 color might be a bit too light, possibly problematic for
those with eye problems. I'd prefer not to go lighter than Heading 3.
b) I'd prefer if the colors ran from darker to lighter. Headings 7-9
shouldn't be darker than Heading 6.
c) I'd like some other differentiation between headings as well. How about
playing with Italics and the normal weight (e.g. for Heading 2, the font
size itself sets it apart)?

I've only had a cursory look at the template so far, might add more
comments later.


On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 10:40 PM, Ahmad Hussein Al-Harthi <
[hidden email]> wrote:

>  Sorry, I forgot to add the link again...
>
>
>
>
> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/images/3/37/Default_Writer_Sans_Template_0.2.ott
>
>
>
>
>
>     Ahmad
>
> *Warning: *This message and its attachment, if any, are confidential and
> may contain information protected by law. If you are not the intended
> recipient, please contact the sender immediately and delete the message and
> its attachment, if any. You should not copy the message and its attachment,
> if any, or disclose its contents to any other person or use it for any
> purpose. Statements and opinions expressed in this e-mail and its
> attachment, if any, are those of the sender, and do not necessarily reflect
> those of King Abdulaziz city for Science and Technology (KACST) in the
> Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. KACST accepts no liability for any damage caused
> by this email.
>
> *تحذير:* هذه الرسالة وما تحويه من مرفقات (إن وجدت) تمثل وثيقة سرية قد
> تحتوي على معلومات محمية بموجب القانون. إذا لم تكن الشخص المعني بهذه الرسالة
> فيجب عليك تنبيه المُرسل بخطأ وصولها إليك، وحذف الرسالة ومرفقاتها (إن وجدت)،
> ولا يجوز لك نسخ أو توزيع هذه الرسالة أو مرفقاتها (إن وجدت) أو أي جزء منها،
> أو البوح بمحتوياتها للغير أو استعمالها لأي غرض. علماً بأن فحوى هذه الرسالة
> ومرفقاتها (ان وجدت) تعبر عن رأي المُرسل وليس بالضرورة رأي مدينة الملك
> عبدالعزيز للعلوم والتقنية بالمملكة العربية السعودية، ولا تتحمل المدينة أي
> مسئولية عن الأضرار الناتجة عن ما قد يحتويه هذا البريد.
>

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ahmad ahmad
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RE: Default Writer Template

Hi,

Please see the new templates at:
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/images/a/a1/Templates.tar.bz2

I've made two versions Serif and Sans-Serif, please have a look at them and give me your feedback.

The files are documents to show how things will look, but not the original templates.

Changes:
1. Headings set to whole numbers.
2. Different heading weights, and no light colours for headings
3. Table items centred

Note: There is no consideration for headings lower than 6 ( I believe we should remove them )


    Ahmad
Warning: This message and its attachment, if any, are confidential and may contain information protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and delete the message and its attachment, if any. You should not copy the message and its attachment, if any, or disclose its contents to any other person or use it for any purpose. Statements and opinions expressed in this e-mail and its attachment, if any, are those of the sender, and do not necessarily reflect those of King Abdulaziz city for Science and Technology (KACST) in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. KACST accepts no liability for any damage caused by this email.

?????: ??? ??????? ??? ????? ?? ?????? (?? ????) ???? ????? ???? ?? ????? ??? ??????? ????? ????? ???????. ??? ?? ??? ????? ?????? ???? ??????? ???? ???? ????? ??????? ???? ?????? ????? ???? ??????? ????????? (?? ????)? ??? ???? ?? ??? ?? ????? ??? ??????? ?? ???????? (?? ????) ?? ?? ??? ????? ?? ????? ?????????? ????? ?? ????????? ??? ???. ????? ??? ???? ??? ??????? ????????? (?? ????) ???? ?? ??? ??????? ???? ???????? ??? ????? ????? ????????? ?????? ???????? ???????? ??????? ????????? ??? ????? ??????? ?? ??????? ?? ??????? ??????? ?? ?? ?? ?????? ??? ??????.


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ahmad ahmad
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Re: Default Writer Template

Ping!



‫في ١٣‏/١٠‏/٢٠١٣، الساعة ٧:٠٨ م، كتب "Ahmad Hussein Al-Harthi" <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>>:‬

Hi,

Please see the new templates at:
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/images/a/a1/Templates.tar.bz2

I've made two versions Serif and Sans-Serif, please have a look at them and give me your feedback.

The files are documents to show how things will look, but not the original templates.

Changes:
1. Headings set to whole numbers.
2. Different heading weights, and no light colours for headings
3. Table items centred

Note: There is no consideration for headings lower than 6 ( I believe we should remove them )


    Ahmad
Warning: This message and its attachment, if any, are confidential and may contain information protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and delete the message and its attachment, if any. You should not copy the message and its attachment, if any, or disclose its contents to any other person or use it for any purpose. Statements and opinions expressed in this e-mail and its attachment, if any, are those of the sender, and do not necessarily reflect those of King Abdulaziz city for Science and Technology (KACST) in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. KACST accepts no liability for any damage caused by this email.

تحذير: هذه الرسالة وما تحويه من مرفقات (إن وجدت) تمثل وثيقة سرية قد تحتوي على معلومات محمية بموجب القانون. إذا لم تكن الشخص المعني بهذه الرسالة فيجب عليك تنبيه المُرسل بخطأ وصولها إليك، وحذف الرسالة ومرفقاتها (إن وجدت)، ولا يجوز لك نسخ أو توزيع هذه الرسالة أو مرفقاتها (إن وجدت) أو أي جزء منها، أو البوح بمحتوياتها للغير أو استعمالها لأي غرض. علماً بأن فحوى هذه الرسالة ومرفقاتها (ان وجدت) تعبر عن رأي المُرسل وليس بالضرورة رأي مدينة الملك عبدالعزيز للعلوم والتقنية بالمملكة العربية السعودية، ولا تتحمل المدينة أي مسئولية عن الأضرار الناتجة عن ما قد يحتويه هذا البريد.


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Nagy Ákos Nagy Ákos
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Re: Default Writer Template

I recomand to change the Footnote Charecters style too.
Usualy users and publishers like that the Footnote Characters is in
Superscript. For this you need to change the "Footnote Charecters"
Character Style.

2013.10.17. 14:51 keltezéssel, Ahmad Hussein Al-Harthi írta:

> Ping!
>
> ‬
>
> ‫في ١٣‏/١٠‏/٢٠١٣، الساعة ٧:٠٨ م، كتب "Ahmad Hussein Al-Harthi" <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>>:‬
>
> Hi,
>
> Please see the new templates at:
> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/images/a/a1/Templates.tar.bz2
>
> I've made two versions Serif and Sans-Serif, please have a look at them and give me your feedback.
>
> The files are documents to show how things will look, but not the original templates.
>
> Changes:
> 1. Headings set to whole numbers.
> 2. Different heading weights, and no light colours for headings
> 3. Table items centred
>
> Note: There is no consideration for headings lower than 6 ( I believe we should remove them )
>
>
>      Ahmad
> Warning: This message and its attachment, if any, are confidential and may contain information protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and delete the message and its attachment, if any. You should not copy the message and its attachment, if any, or disclose its contents to any other person or use it for any purpose. Statements and opinions expressed in this e-mail and its attachment, if any, are those of the sender, and do not necessarily reflect those of King Abdulaziz city for Science and Technology (KACST) in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. KACST accepts no liability for any damage caused by this email.
>
> تحذير: هذه الرسالة وما تحويه من مرفقات (إن وجدت) تمثل وثيقة سرية قد تحتوي على معلومات محمية بموجب القانون. إذا لم تكن الشخص المعني بهذه الرسالة فيجب عليك تنبيه المُرسل بخطأ وصولها إليك، وحذف الرسالة ومرفقاتها (إن وجدت)، ولا يجوز لك نسخ أو توزيع هذه الرسالة أو مرفقاتها (إن وجدت) أو أي جزء منها، أو البوح بمحتوياتها للغير أو استعمالها لأي غرض. علماً بأن فحوى هذه الرسالة ومرفقاتها (ان وجدت) تعبر عن رأي المُرسل وليس بالضرورة رأي مدينة الملك عبدالعزيز للعلوم والتقنية بالمملكة العربية السعودية، ولا تتحمل المدينة أي مسئولية عن الأضرار الناتجة عن ما قد يحتويه هذا البريد.
>
>


--
Ákos


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mirek2 mirek2
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Re: Default Writer Template

In reply to this post by ahmad
Hi Ahmad,
Sorry for the late reply.
So, my comments:
I'd still like Headings to be Sans and the text Serif, or vice versa. I'm
not alone in this idea -- using a different font for headings and for body
text is a common practice. There are websites dedicated to font pairings,
and the use of these pairings is why OOXML themes let the user choose a
font for headings and a different font for body text.
I'm a bit concerned about centering table contents. Centered text is
generally harder to read and can get in the way if you have to compare
data. I'd rather they were left-aligned (right-aligned for RTL languages,
of course).
In general, I'd like styles to be relative, not hard-coded. That means that
the Heading style should hold the font family, for example, not each
individual heading. I now also realize why the LibreOffice styles used
decimal point values -- the headings were saved as percentages, which, come
to think of it, isn't a bad idea.
I'm still not entirely happy with the headings. As I said earlier, I'd
prefer if superior headings weren't lighter than subordinate headings (i.e.
Heading 3 shouldn't be lighter than Heading 5) and I'd like there to be
some differentiation between heading 7-10.
I'd also like the subtitle to be lighter.

Here's something more along the lines of what I'd imagine:
http://ubuntuone.com/4Ng8kwHYlwY3Cs32cEr2y2 . (There are a few more
elements used in the document, remove them for a direct comparison.)


On Sun, Oct 13, 2013 at 6:08 PM, Ahmad Hussein Al-Harthi <
[hidden email]> wrote:

>  Hi,
>
> Please see the new templates at:
> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/images/a/a1/Templates.tar.bz2
>
> I've made two versions Serif and Sans-Serif, please have a look at them
> and give me your feedback.
>
> The files are documents to show how things will look, but not the original
> templates.
>
> Changes:
> 1. Headings set to whole numbers.
> 2. Different heading weights, and no light colours for headings
> 3. Table items centred
>
> Note: There is no consideration for headings lower than 6 ( I believe we
> should remove them )
>
>
>       Ahmad
>
> *Warning: *This message and its attachment, if any, are confidential and
> may contain information protected by law. If you are not the intended
> recipient, please contact the sender immediately and delete the message and
> its attachment, if any. You should not copy the message and its attachment,
> if any, or disclose its contents to any other person or use it for any
> purpose. Statements and opinions expressed in this e-mail and its
> attachment, if any, are those of the sender, and do not necessarily reflect
> those of King Abdulaziz city for Science and Technology (KACST) in the
> Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. KACST accepts no liability for any damage caused
> by this email.
>
> *تحذير:* هذه الرسالة وما تحويه من مرفقات (إن وجدت) تمثل وثيقة سرية قد
> تحتوي على معلومات محمية بموجب القانون. إذا لم تكن الشخص المعني بهذه الرسالة
> فيجب عليك تنبيه المُرسل بخطأ وصولها إليك، وحذف الرسالة ومرفقاتها (إن وجدت)،
> ولا يجوز لك نسخ أو توزيع هذه الرسالة أو مرفقاتها (إن وجدت) أو أي جزء منها،
> أو البوح بمحتوياتها للغير أو استعمالها لأي غرض. علماً بأن فحوى هذه الرسالة
> ومرفقاتها (ان وجدت) تعبر عن رأي المُرسل وليس بالضرورة رأي مدينة الملك
> عبدالعزيز للعلوم والتقنية بالمملكة العربية السعودية، ولا تتحمل المدينة أي
> مسئولية عن الأضرار الناتجة عن ما قد يحتويه هذا البريد.
>

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ahmad ahmad
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RE: Default Writer Template

Hi all,

> From: Nagy Ákos

> I recomand to change the Footnote Charecters style too.
> Usualy users and publishers like that the Footnote Characters is in
> Superscript. For this you need to change the "Footnote Charecters"
> Character Style.

   Done, thanks for the comment :)



> From: Merik

> Sorry for the late reply.
> So, my comments:
> I'd still like Headings to be Sans and the text Serif, or vice versa. I'm not alone in this idea -- using a different font for headings and for body text is a common practice. There are websites dedicated to font pairings, and the use of these pairings is why OOXML themes let the user choose a font for headings and a different font for body text.

   I'm not against the idea, but try it on low reselution screens. I didn't like mixed Liberation sans and serif...
   Anyway, I made your changes plus others, please let me know what you think?


> I'm a bit concerned about centering table contents. Centered text is generally harder to read and can get in the way if you have to compare data. I'd rather they were left-aligned (right-aligned for RTL languages, of course).

   Yes, you're right.


> In general, I'd like styles to be relative, not hard-coded. That means that the Heading style should hold the font family, for example, not each individual heading.

   This needs some work, which I'll try to be involved in some time later. The whole styling system needs a review and reorganizing.


> I now also realize why the LibreOffice styles used decimal point values -- the headings were saved as percentages, which, come to think of it, isn't a bad idea.

   Percentage is and ems are the future, since we're going to support web, Android, and others.


> I'm still not entirely happy with the headings. As I said earlier, I'd prefer if superior headings weren't lighter than subordinate headings (i.e. Heading 3 shouldn't be lighter than Heading 5) and I'd like there to be some differentiation between heading 7-10.

   Done, but Isn't better we get rid of headings 7-10?


> I'd also like the subtitle to be lighter.

   Done.


> Here's something more along the lines of what I'd imagine: http://ubuntuone.com/4Ng8kwHYlwY3Cs32cEr2y2 . (There are a few more elements used in the document, remove them for a direct comparison.)

    Please let me know about this one https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/images/d/d6/Template_mixed_fonts.odt I've removed bold weights from all headings, sans vs serif should make headers clear wihtout being bold. Notice the spaces around table elements.



   Ahmad
Warning: This message and its attachment, if any, are confidential and may contain information protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and delete the message and its attachment, if any. You should not copy the message and its attachment, if any, or disclose its contents to any other person or use it for any purpose. Statements and opinions expressed in this e-mail and its attachment, if any, are those of the sender, and do not necessarily reflect those of King Abdulaziz city for Science and Technology (KACST) in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. KACST accepts no liability for any damage caused by this email.

?????: ??? ??????? ??? ????? ?? ?????? (?? ????) ???? ????? ???? ?? ????? ??? ??????? ????? ????? ???????. ??? ?? ??? ????? ?????? ???? ??????? ???? ???? ????? ??????? ???? ?????? ????? ???? ??????? ????????? (?? ????)? ??? ???? ?? ??? ?? ????? ??? ??????? ?? ???????? (?? ????) ?? ?? ??? ????? ?? ????? ?????????? ????? ?? ????????? ??? ???. ????? ??? ???? ??? ??????? ????????? (?? ????) ???? ?? ??? ??????? ???? ???????? ??? ????? ????? ????????? ?????? ???????? ???????? ??????? ????????? ??? ????? ??????? ?? ??????? ?? ??????? ??????? ?? ?? ?? ?????? ??? ??????.


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mirek2 mirek2
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Re: Default Writer Template

Hi Ahmad,

On Wed, Oct 23, 2013 at 2:45 PM, Ahmad Hussein Al-Harthi <
[hidden email]> wrote:

>  Hi all,
>
> > From: *Nagy Ákos*
>
>
> > I recomand to change the Footnote Charecters style too.
> > Usualy users and publishers like that the Footnote Characters is in
> > Superscript. For this you need to change the "Footnote Charecters"
> > Character Style.
>
>    Done, thanks for the comment :)
>
>
>
> > From: *Merik*
>
>
> > Sorry for the late reply.
>      > So, my comments:
>  > I'd still like Headings to be Sans and the text Serif, or vice versa.
> I'm not alone in this idea -- using a different font for headings and for
> body text is a common practice. There are websites dedicated to font
> pairings, and the use of these pairings is why OOXML themes let the user
> choose a font for headings and a different font for body text.
>
>    I'm not against the idea, but try it on low reselution screens. I
> didn't like mixed Liberation sans and serif...
>

I am trying it on my netbook, with the resolution of 1024*576 -- not the
worst of resolutions, but certainly could be better. We've been using the
combination for quite some time and I haven't heard major complaints. I'd
like to stick with it.


>    Anyway, I made your changes plus others, please let me know what you
> think?
>

* Text body should be 12pt for better legibility.
* Headings should be better differentiated. The size differences are
obvious when compared near each other, but are easily lost in large bodies
of text. I'd be happier if bold, italic, and color were used for
differentiation.
* As per http://practicaltypography.com/summary-of-key-rules.html, I'd say
underlining should not be used in headings.

>
>  > I'm a bit concerned about centering table contents. Centered text is
> generally harder to read and can get in the way if you have to compare
> data. I'd rather they were left-aligned (right-aligned for RTL languages,
> of course).
>
>    Yes, you're right.
>

Please update this in your proposal. :)

>
>    > In general, I'd like styles to be relative, not hard-coded. That
> means that the Heading style should hold the font family, for example, not
> each individual heading.
>
>    This needs some work, which I'll try to be involved in some time later.
> The whole styling system needs a review and reorganizing.
>

Sounds good.

>
> > I now also realize why the LibreOffice styles used decimal point values
> -- the headings were saved as percentages, which, come to think of it,
> isn't a bad idea.
>
>    Percentage is and ems are the future, since we're going to support web,
> Android, and others.
>

What I meant was that substyles used percentage values of the parent style,
which was still in points.
In general, we should stick to points, at least with Writer, as it's
tailored toward print.

>
>  > I'm still not entirely happy with the headings. As I said earlier, I'd
> prefer if superior headings weren't lighter than subordinate headings (i.e.
> Heading 3 shouldn't be lighter than Heading 5) and I'd like there to be
> some differentiation between heading 7-10.
>
>    Done, but Isn't better we get rid of headings 7-10?
>

OK, I guess that sounds good.

>
>  > I'd also like the subtitle to be lighter.
>
>    Done.
>
>
>  > Here's something more along the lines of what I'd imagine:
> http://ubuntuone.com/4Ng8kwHYlwY3Cs32cEr2y2 . (There are a few more
> elements used in the document, remove them for a direct comparison.)
>
>     Please let me know about this one
> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/images/d/d6/Template_mixed_fonts.odtI've removed bold weights from all headings, sans vs serif should make
> headers clear wihtout being bold. Notice the spaces around table elements.
>
>
>
>    Ahmad
>
> *Warning: *This message and its attachment, if any, are confidential and
> may contain information protected by law. If you are not the intended
> recipient, please contact the sender immediately and delete the message and
> its attachment, if any. You should not copy the message and its attachment,
> if any, or disclose its contents to any other person or use it for any
> purpose. Statements and opinions expressed in this e-mail and its
> attachment, if any, are those of the sender, and do not necessarily reflect
> those of King Abdulaziz city for Science and Technology (KACST) in the
> Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. KACST accepts no liability for any damage caused
> by this email.
>
> *تحذير:* هذه الرسالة وما تحويه من مرفقات (إن وجدت) تمثل وثيقة سرية قد
> تحتوي على معلومات محمية بموجب القانون. إذا لم تكن الشخص المعني بهذه الرسالة
> فيجب عليك تنبيه المُرسل بخطأ وصولها إليك، وحذف الرسالة ومرفقاتها (إن وجدت)،
> ولا يجوز لك نسخ أو توزيع هذه الرسالة أو مرفقاتها (إن وجدت) أو أي جزء منها،
> أو البوح بمحتوياتها للغير أو استعمالها لأي غرض. علماً بأن فحوى هذه الرسالة
> ومرفقاتها (ان وجدت) تعبر عن رأي المُرسل وليس بالضرورة رأي مدينة الملك
> عبدالعزيز للعلوم والتقنية بالمملكة العربية السعودية، ولا تتحمل المدينة أي
> مسئولية عن الأضرار الناتجة عن ما قد يحتويه هذا البريد.
>

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Re: Default Writer Template

I think the body of the text should be justified rather than left aligned since it's the most used way. It makes it to look better and more proffessional and organized.

On the other hand, I would put the left and right margins in 2,50cm instead of 2,00cm because it looks more formal.
Greg Lubel Greg Lubel
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Re: Default Writer Template

On Wednesday 01 Jan 2014 11:31:26 logos wrote:
> I think the body of the text should be justified rather than left aligned
> since it's the most used way. It makes it to look better and more
> proffessional and organized.
a) Left aligned is more readable, because the reader can scan lines and keep
their place more easily - basic cog psy.
b) Justified text is designed to maximise content in a grid systems where
narrow columns are the norm. For example newspapers and magazines. It is
wholly inappropriate for full width text, such as a letter.
c) <shudder> The US' favourite (and most unpleasant common font) is Times New
Roman. Let's please either choose a good, open, modern default font
(preferably something sans serif, which is more readable for most people's
screens) and not take the de-facto TR awfulness that all the corporates give
us without a second thought. If we really must have a serif font, then let's
at least provide two defaults and/or improve the usability of the template
config much better - it's rubbish as it stands. I don't recall if the install
process asks for the users preferred default font and or template but that
might be a temporary solution. </shudder>

>
> On the other hand, I would put the left and right margins in 2,50cm instead
> of 2,00cm because it looks more formal.
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Default-Writer-Template-tp4076271p4090
> 447.html Sent from the Design mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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