Fwd: UNSUBSCRIBE!

Hi all,

I am in favor for an interface, where those fools/trols/ignorant/... can
be unsubscribed by the moderators, without having to bother Florian too
much :-)

Just my opinion,
Cor

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: UNSUBSCRIBE!
Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2011 14:22:30 +0200
From: Thomas Werner <[hidden email]>
Organization: WERNERPRISE
To: [hidden email]



Now even my mails to your "info" account are rejected, I try again.
Please read below. Thank you.

-------- Original-Nachricht --------
Betreff: UNSUBSCRIBE!
Datum: Wed, 08 Jun 2011 10:29:29 +0200
Von: Thomas Werner <[hidden email]>
Organisation: WERNERPRISE
An: [hidden email]



Hello everybody,
this is the second time I try to unsubscribe from your list, and again,
your mail host rejects my confirmation. The first mail, sent to
"[hidden email]", is NOT being rejected,
but confirmation then is. Below you find the error message.
So please, DO UNSUBSCRIBE me now from the list!
I do not want to get your mails anymore!
Please do remove my data from your database, too, and confirm by a brief
e-mail.

Thanks,
Thomas

-------- Original-Nachricht --------
Betreff: failure notice
Datum: 8 Jun 2011 07:58:33 -0000
Von: [hidden email]
An: [hidden email]



Hi. This is the qmail-send program at oproxy5-pub.bluehost.com.
I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses.
This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out.

<announce+confunsub-2c14406a32f2504d-thomas.werner=[hidden email]>:
178.63.91.70 does not like recipient.
Remote host said: 550
5.7.1<announce+confunsub-2c14406a32f2504d-thomas.werner=[hidden email]>:
Recipient address rejected: Mail appears to be spam or forged and is
rejected due to policy.
Correct your HELO or DNS MX settings and get removed from DNSBLs; please
relay via your ISP (wernerprise.com)
Giving up on 178.63.91.70.

--- Enclosed are the original headers of the message.





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Hi Cor,

On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 2:54 PM, Cor Nouws
<[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I am in favor for an interface, where those fools/trols/ignorant/... can be
> unsubscribed by the moderators, without having to bother Florian too much
> :-)

Well, this time it's the first time an unsubscribe complaint contained
useful information, and I have no doubt that the user did his best to
unsubscribe himself.

A web-interface won't help, as the key to mailinglist subscription and
also unsubscripiton is the double-opt in/out.
I.e. you must be sure that only those users who actually own the
email-address can subscribe or unsubscribe.

Please forward such requests to the
[hidden email], so not only Florian has to deal
with it but all people who can deal with it.

I'll unsubscribe that user and reply to him with an apology for the
trouble, and with a big thanks of letting us know of the actual
failure.


So indeed his confirmation mail didn't reach the mailinglist system,
and hence he was not unsubscribed. But of course this is an error in
the mail-filtering/blacklisitng whatever. It definitely needs to be
looked into.

ciao
Christian

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Hi Christian,

Christian Lohmaier wrote (09-06-11 15:04)

> Well, this time it's the first time an unsubscribe complaint contained
> useful information, and I have no doubt that the user did his best to
> unsubscribe himself.

Ah great - I didn't look in the details.
I guess the capitalized Subject makes me react allergic already ;-)

> Please forward such requests to the
> [hidden email], so not only Florian has to deal
> with it but all people who can deal with it.

I guess [hidden email] is for all list-trouble?
(do not see it on the website)



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Hi,

Christian Lohmaier wrote on 2011-06-09 15.04:

> Well, this time it's the first time an unsubscribe complaint contained
> useful information, and I have no doubt that the user did his best to
> unsubscribe himself.

indeed. A first check on another bounce I got aware of today was that
*indeed* some mail servers delivering messages to us are *heavily*
blacklisted, and the change spam comes from them is high. We rely on
several combinations of triggers that must kick in before we block, in
order to avoid false positives.

However, that doesn't help people who want to unsubscribe and can't.

> A web-interface won't help, as the key to mailinglist subscription and
> also unsubscripiton is the double-opt in/out.
> I.e. you must be sure that only those users who actually own the
> email-address can subscribe or unsubscribe.

What would be helpful if we could provide a web interface that e-mails
them a URL they need to click, and if the magic token fits, they are
unsubscribed. Thus, they only need to be able to *receive* e-mail from
us (if they wouldn't, they had no problems of unsubscribing, as they
then won't receive mailing list posts :-)

> Please forward such requests to the
> [hidden email], so not only Florian has to deal
> with it but all people who can deal with it.

Maybe an interesting note: The postmaster@ account (and *not* info@) has
less filters, so if you send to this account, chances that mails arrive
are much higher, even if you would normally have been blocked.

> So indeed his confirmation mail didn't reach the mailinglist system,
> and hence he was not unsubscribed. But of course this is an error in
> the mail-filtering/blacklisitng whatever. It definitely needs to be
> looked into.

Thanks for taking care of investigating! I will have a look these days.
In the meantime, ping postmaster@ (again, *only* this alias!) in case of
questions.

Florian

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Hi Cor, *,

On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 5:22 PM, Cor Nouws
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Christian Lohmaier wrote (09-06-11 15:04)
>
>> Well, this time it's the first time an unsubscribe complaint contained
>> useful information, and I have no doubt that the user did his best to
>> unsubscribe himself.
>
> Ah great - I didn't look in the details.
> I guess the capitalized Subject makes me react allergic already ;-)

:-)

>> Please forward such requests to the
>> [hidden email], so not only Florian has to deal
>> with it but all people who can deal with it.
>
> I guess [hidden email] is for all list-trouble?
> (do not see it on the website)

Yes - [hidden email] is for abuse-reports, and
[hidden email] is for all general (technical)
mail-related issues, esp. all troubles with the mailinglists.

[hidden email] is mentioned in email headers, and I
guess also in the help-messages.

ciao
Christian

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Hi,

Cor Nouws wrote on 2011-06-09 17.22:
> I guess [hidden email] is for all list-trouble?
> (do not see it on the website)

exactly. :-) Ping this address, it has also less spam filters than the
others, so should be pretty well reachable.

Florian

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Florian Effenberger <[hidden email]>
Steering Committee and Founding Member of The Document Foundation
Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108
Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff

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