[Libreoffice-qa] QA Meeting Minutes (2017-04-25)

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Xisco Fauli Xisco Fauli
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[Libreoffice-qa] QA Meeting Minutes (2017-04-25)

Meeting started by x1sc0 at 15:45:24 UTC.  The full logs are available
at
http://dev-downloads.libreoffice.org/meetbot/libreoffice-qa/2017/libreoffice-qa.2017-04-25-15.45.log.html
.



Meeting summary
---------------

* Documentation as a Keyword  (x1sc0, 15:45:53)
  * cloph doesn't mind which way to go, but doesn't want to have *both*
    component and keyword  (cloph, 15:55:26)
  * ohallot I like the documentation as a "Components"., sub keywords as
    Help, Guide, Wiki, Multimedia  (x1sc0, 15:55:54)
  * iplaw67 and x1sc0 agree with cloph  (x1sc0, 15:56:25)
  * LINK:
    https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/Bugzilla/Components#How_to_use_subcomponents
    (buovjaga, 16:01:36)
  * use 'Documentation' component + GUIDE: WIKI: HELP: or MULTIMEDIA: at
    the beginning of the summary  (x1sc0, 16:06:03)
  * AGREED: 'Documentation' component remains and some subcomponents
    will be used at the beginning of the summary  (x1sc0, 16:12:05)
  * "clone bug" is kinda hidden at bottom of the page  (cloph, 16:12:23)
  * make sure to not use the simple form links (large print), but the
    smaller-print project list when creating the clone  (cloph,
    16:12:44)

* clone link  (x1sc0, 16:12:57)
  * link at the bottom of the page  (x1sc0, 16:14:58)
  * it clones the summary and the description  (x1sc0, 16:15:52)

* QA telegram group  (x1sc0, 16:17:48)
  * buovjaga> yeah forums are better for asynch discussion  (x1sc0,
    16:23:03)
  * cloph is sceptical, doesn't think telegram would be
    newcomer-friendly (not as widespread like e.g. twitter/facebook),
    and also cannot see what kind of conversations it would be good for
    (cloph, 16:38:43)
  * LINK:
    https://m.signalvnoise.com/is-group-chat-making-you-sweat-744659addf7d
    (buovjaga, 16:41:56)



Meeting ended at 16:47:42 UTC.



People present (lines said)
---------------------------

* x1sc0 (83)
* cloph (48)
* buovjaga (26)
* DennisRoczek (25)
* ohallot (16)
* sophi (11)
* bearon (7)
* marcoagpinto (6)
* IZBot (4)
* iplaw67 (2)


--
Xisco Faulí
Libreoffice QA Team
IRC: x1sc0

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Xisco Fauli Xisco Fauli
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Re: QA Meeting Minutes (2017-04-25)

Hello,

> * QA telegram group  (x1sc0, 16:17:48)
>   * buovjaga> yeah forums are better for asynch discussion  (x1sc0,
>     16:23:03)
>   * cloph is sceptical, doesn't think telegram would be
>     newcomer-friendly (not as widespread like e.g. twitter/facebook),
>     and also cannot see what kind of conversations it would be good for
>     (cloph, 16:38:43)
>   * LINK:
>     https://m.signalvnoise.com/is-group-chat-making-you-sweat-744659addf7d
>     (buovjaga, 16:41:56)

Group created: https://t.me/LibreOffice_QA

Regards

--
Xisco Faulí
Libreoffice QA Team
IRC: x1sc0

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Bjoern Michaelsen-3 Bjoern Michaelsen-3
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Re: QA Meeting Minutes (2017-04-25)

Hi folks,

On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 05:13:43PM +0200, Xisco Fauli wrote:

> Hello,
>
> > * QA telegram group  (x1sc0, 16:17:48)
> >   * buovjaga> yeah forums are better for asynch discussion  (x1sc0,
> >     16:23:03)
> >   * cloph is sceptical, doesn't think telegram would be
> >     newcomer-friendly (not as widespread like e.g. twitter/facebook),
> >     and also cannot see what kind of conversations it would be good for
> >     (cloph, 16:38:43)
> >   * LINK:
> >     https://m.signalvnoise.com/is-group-chat-making-you-sweat-744659addf7d
> >     (buovjaga, 16:41:56)
>
> Group created: https://t.me/LibreOffice_QA

I havent been in the call, but I have no right to object here. ;)

Allow me to add a very specific request on this though:

- please try to define really well and clean cut, what the best/prefered
  communication channel for a specific topic is
- please also define well an clean cut, which topic are tolerated on other
  channels and why

The thing to avoid is having a topic dicussed on multiple channels, which might
lead to different sub-groups of the community to reach different (and
conflicting) consensus on topics on different channels.

Prior examples of such borders are:
- RedMine vs. Bugzilla
  "everything about the product LibreOffice belongs on bugzilla, no exceptions"
- AskBot vs. Bugzilla
  Inexperienced users might start on AskBot to triage their issue (which might
  a support question, not a bug), but once a bug is well-triaged it must move
  to bugzilla.
- #libreoffice-dev vs. user support on IRC
  see /topic: "This is the LibreOffice DEVELOPER channel. For user questions &
  problems without code go to #libreoffice ..."

Once you have a clean cut definition on what can be discussed on telegram (and
when the discussion should be moved to bugzilla or whereever ...), it should be
noted in the channel description (and probably also on the TDF wiki listing all
comms and the mapping of topics).

E.g. the "single source of Truth" on LibreOffice bugs is always Bugzilla. You can
chat about bugs elsewhere, but as long as its not reflected on Bugzilla, others
in the community are not required to know about it and in case of doubt, its
your duty to copy relevant info over to Bugzilla[1]. (This is nothing new either,
e.g. it happens that devs copy over IRC conversations over to Bugzilla.)

And with that Im finished proselytizing. ;)

Best,

Bjoern

[1] And corollary: "But we had a different conclusion about that bug on
    telegram." by default is void against whatever is in Bugzilla, if the two
    are conflicting.
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Xisco Fauli Xisco Fauli
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Re: QA Meeting Minutes (2017-04-25)

Hi Bjorn,

Thanks for sharing you thoughts on this.

I agree with you that we need to avoid parallel discussions in different
channel and Bugzilla needs to be the "single source of Truth" as you
said. As creator of the Telegram group, I will make sure it happens that
way, otherwise I will consider closing it.

As I see it, now that we have Testlink up and running ( thanks to Sophie
), the Telegram group is a good way for end users to get to know the
platform, and a good place where they can ask questions about it. For
the time being, we're 18 people in the group, and most of them don't
seem to be normally hanging around in IRC.

Anyway, let's see how it evolves. It's much easier to take conclusions
looking back in time.

Regards

El 27/04/17 a les 18:02, Bjoern Michaelsen ha escrit:

> Hi folks,
>
> On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 05:13:43PM +0200, Xisco Fauli wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>>> * QA telegram group  (x1sc0, 16:17:48)
>>>   * buovjaga> yeah forums are better for asynch discussion  (x1sc0,
>>>     16:23:03)
>>>   * cloph is sceptical, doesn't think telegram would be
>>>     newcomer-friendly (not as widespread like e.g. twitter/facebook),
>>>     and also cannot see what kind of conversations it would be good for
>>>     (cloph, 16:38:43)
>>>   * LINK:
>>>     https://m.signalvnoise.com/is-group-chat-making-you-sweat-744659addf7d
>>>     (buovjaga, 16:41:56)
>> Group created: https://t.me/LibreOffice_QA
> I havent been in the call, but I have no right to object here. ;)
>
> Allow me to add a very specific request on this though:
>
> - please try to define really well and clean cut, what the best/prefered
>   communication channel for a specific topic is
> - please also define well an clean cut, which topic are tolerated on other
>   channels and why
>
> The thing to avoid is having a topic dicussed on multiple channels, which might
> lead to different sub-groups of the community to reach different (and
> conflicting) consensus on topics on different channels.
>
> Prior examples of such borders are:
> - RedMine vs. Bugzilla
>   "everything about the product LibreOffice belongs on bugzilla, no exceptions"
> - AskBot vs. Bugzilla
>   Inexperienced users might start on AskBot to triage their issue (which might
>   a support question, not a bug), but once a bug is well-triaged it must move
>   to bugzilla.
> - #libreoffice-dev vs. user support on IRC
>   see /topic: "This is the LibreOffice DEVELOPER channel. For user questions &
>   problems without code go to #libreoffice ..."
>
> Once you have a clean cut definition on what can be discussed on telegram (and
> when the discussion should be moved to bugzilla or whereever ...), it should be
> noted in the channel description (and probably also on the TDF wiki listing all
> comms and the mapping of topics).
>
> E.g. the "single source of Truth" on LibreOffice bugs is always Bugzilla. You can
> chat about bugs elsewhere, but as long as its not reflected on Bugzilla, others
> in the community are not required to know about it and in case of doubt, its
> your duty to copy relevant info over to Bugzilla[1]. (This is nothing new either,
> e.g. it happens that devs copy over IRC conversations over to Bugzilla.)
>
> And with that Im finished proselytizing. ;)
>
> Best,
>
> Bjoern
>
> [1] And corollary: "But we had a different conclusion about that bug on
>     telegram." by default is void against whatever is in Bugzilla, if the two
>     are conflicting.
>

--
Xisco Faulí
Libreoffice QA Team
IRC: x1sc0


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