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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 99528] New: Better handling for multiline tabs

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 99528] New: Better handling for multiline tabs

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=99528

            Bug ID: 99528
           Summary: Better handling for multiline tabs
           Product: LibreOffice
           Version: Inherited From OOo
          Hardware: All
                OS: All
            Status: UNCONFIRMED
          Severity: normal
          Priority: medium
         Component: ux-advise
          Assignee: [hidden email]
          Reporter: [hidden email]
                CC: [hidden email]

Created attachment 124669
  --> https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/attachment.cgi?id=124669&action=edit
Paragraph style: Current layout

Currently we have some dialogs which have multiple rows of tabs, for example
the "paragraph style" dialog.

I find it highly confusing to use this kind of tabs. As they are not in one
row, it is hard to read all tabs to get a glance what tabs you have. Also when
selecting a tab from the top, that row moves to the bottom, which is even more
confusing, since the position of all tabs changes.

I have two ideas how to improve the situation:
1. Leave the tabs as they are (multiline), but don't switch rows when selecting
a tab from the top.
2. Stop using multiline tabs at all and use vertical tabs instead (have them on
the left).

Any thougts on this?

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 99528] Better handling for multiline tabs

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=99528

Samuel Mehrbrodt (CIB) <[hidden email]> changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
             Status|UNCONFIRMED                 |NEW
                 CC|                            |[hidden email]
     Ever confirmed|0                           |1

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 99528] Better handling for multiline tabs

In reply to this post by bugzilla-daemon-2
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=99528

--- Comment #1 from Samuel Mehrbrodt (CIB) <[hidden email]> ---
Created attachment 124670
  --> https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/attachment.cgi?id=124670&action=edit
Mockup: Vertical tabs for paragraph style dialog

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 99528] Better handling for multiline tabs

In reply to this post by bugzilla-daemon-2
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=99528

--- Comment #2 from Heiko Tietze <[hidden email]> ---
The proposal was to introduce icon views instead of tabs. Looks tidy and modern
with icons and enough white space. But I remember harsh criticism saying we
cannot change all dialogs.

http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/msg07251.html
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/PropertyDialog 

An alternative is to just disable multiline tabs. In that case, arrows allow to
navigate to the undisplayed tabs.

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 99528] Better handling for multiline tabs

In reply to this post by bugzilla-daemon-2
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=99528

--- Comment #3 from Samuel Mehrbrodt (CIB) <[hidden email]> ---
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #2)
> The proposal was to introduce icon views instead of tabs. Looks tidy and
> modern with icons and enough white space. But I remember harsh criticism
> saying we cannot change all dialogs.

In this case we have *17* tabs. That would mean a lot of scrolling with your
mockup. I'm sure power users would complain very soon. If anything, I would
keep the small tab size and add icons left to the text, like:

[icon] label
[icon] label
...

>
> http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/msg07251.html
> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/PropertyDialog 
>
> An alternative is to just disable multiline tabs. In that case, arrows allow
> to navigate to the undisplayed tabs.

This is ok as long as there is one or two tabs that cannot be shown by default,
but I wouldn't do it if half of the tabs need scrolling, this would also
seriously slow down power users.

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 99528] Better handling for multiline tabs

In reply to this post by bugzilla-daemon-2
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=99528

Cor Nouws <[hidden email]> changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                 CC|                            |[hidden email]

--- Comment #4 from Cor Nouws <[hidden email]> ---
(In reply to Samuel Mehrbrodt (CIB) from comment #3)

> (In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #2)
> > The proposal was to introduce icon views instead of tabs. Looks tidy and
> > modern with icons and enough white space. But I remember harsh criticism
> > saying we cannot change all dialogs.
>
> In this case we have *17* tabs. That would mean a lot of scrolling with your
> mockup. I'm sure power users would complain very soon. If anything, I would
> keep the small tab size and add icons left to the text, like:
>
> [icon] label
> [icon] label
> ...

Looks as a reasonable idea.
Wrt power users: one might expect a decent key stroke to move to the
next/previous page/tab. Maybe the same as currently.

We must realize that also dialogs with as little as two tabs exist. Then the
labels in a vertical row is a waste of space..

(In reply to Samuel Mehrbrodt (CIB) from comment #0)
> I have two ideas how to improve the situation:
> 1. Leave the tabs as they are (multiline), but don't switch rows when
> selecting a tab from the top.

I would love to see some experimenting with that.

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 99528] Better handling for multiline tabs

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=99528

--- Comment #5 from Samuel Mehrbrodt (CIB) <[hidden email]> ---
(In reply to Cor Nouws from comment #4)
> We must realize that also dialogs with as little as two tabs exist. Then the
> labels in a vertical row is a waste of space..

Sure, I am talking about dialogs with more than one row of tabs, I wouldn't
change the others.


> I would love to see some experimenting with that.

Maybe we can do this as a first step and then iterate? Or do we want to ban
multiline tabs at all, then I won't waste time on this.

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 99528] Better handling for multiline tabs

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=99528

--- Comment #6 from Heiko Tietze <[hidden email]> ---
Stacking text/tabs to avoid whitespace and having different UI concepts that
would be two epic design failures.

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 99528] Better handling for multiline tabs

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=99528

--- Comment #7 from Cor Nouws <[hidden email]> ---
(In reply to Samuel Mehrbrodt (CIB) from comment #5)
> Sure, I am talking about dialogs with more than one row of tabs, I wouldn't
> change the others.

Would look odd to me, to have two types..

> > I would love to see some experimenting with that.
>
> Maybe we can do this as a first step and then iterate? Or do we want to ban
> multiline tabs at all, then I won't waste time on this.

I would love to have a look with a not so much used dialogue maybe in a daily.
Heiko, what do you think?

Honestly I see no solution, bringing more improvements that drawbacks ;) , in
the first option.

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 99528] Better handling for multiline tabs

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=99528

Yousuf (Jay) Philips <[hidden email]> changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
           Keywords|                            |needsUXEval
                 CC|                            |[hidden email]
          Component|ux-advise                   |UI

--- Comment #8 from Yousuf (Jay) Philips <[hidden email]> ---
When there is a limited number of tabs and the dialog contains functionality
that is seen by basic users (benjamin), the icon-based vertical tabs which is
found in the hyperlink dialog is nice. We are hoping to implement this in a
simplified options dialog (bug 90989).

When there are many tabs and the dialog is primarily focused on more
experienced users (eve), the non-icon vertical tabs found in the options dialog
is nice. MS Office does a similar type of vertical tabs dialog with sufficient
white spacing between each entry -
https://support.content.office.net/en-us/media/5053c209-22b4-4336-a8ec-fd03d4547678.jpg

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 99528] Better handling for multiline tabs

In reply to this post by bugzilla-daemon-2
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=99528

Thomas Lendo <[hidden email]> changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
             Blocks|                            |102019

--- Comment #9 from Thomas Lendo <[hidden email]> ---
I find the current layout much more clear and faster readable than any vertical
layout. Most people are used to read LTR or RTL, not top to bottom or reverse.
Also there is much more horizontal than vertical space. Using a scrollbar would
be a usability disaster. A vertical layout should only be an option for very
few (~handful) points.

Disabling multiline tabs and showing arrows to scroll reduces the usability too
because you can't have all options at a look, what's important especially for
Benjamin to find the right tab/option.


Referenced Bugs:

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=102019
[Bug 102019] [META] Dialog bugs and enhancements
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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 99528] Better handling for multiline tabs

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--- Comment #10 from Yousuf Philips (jay) <[hidden email]> ---
(In reply to Thomas Lendo from comment #9)
> Most people are used to read LTR or RTL, not top to bottom or reverse.

The contents of the tabs are ordered top to bottom in columns.

> Also there is much more horizontal than vertical space.

That all depends on how the controls are organized. Many tabs have extra wide
controls for no reason (e.g. Character dialog's hyperlink and highlighting
tabs, nearly every tabs in the Paragraph dialog)

> Using a scrollbar would be a usability disaster. A vertical layout should only
> be an option for very few (~handful) points.

Cant say i agree with you, as when you have content that is larger than the
available space, scrollbars are common and useful (e.g. browser, file manager).
Alternatively you would have to have more vertical tabs, but you wouldnt be for
scrolling within the vertical tabs.

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