Minutes of the design meeting 2018-Jan-31

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Minutes of the design meeting 2018-Jan-31

Present: Jay, Heiko, Thomas

Organization

 * Annual report
   + https://pad.documentfoundation.org/p/annualreport
   => everyone, please add your contributions there

GSoC

 * Full list of ideas https://pad.documentfoundation.org/p/UX-GSoC_Ideas
 * Public list https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/GSoC/Ideas#User_Interface

Last week(')s todo's

 * Standard palette rework
   + https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=114719
   + https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/48887/

Tickets

 * New bitmaps for the Gallery
   + https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=114817
   + ideally we get the new and old bitmaps into some kind of voting
   + https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1O0-09bhr0dHQ3VQTED2wFM9WBgEY5v-4VM7iMSS4BVY
   => 10 replies so far, let's see if more people vote

 * Math dialogs
   + https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=114395
   + redesign of distributed dialogs started by kompilainenn
   + check extension http://www.dmaths.org/ 
   => Mockup done, to the ticket (Heiko)
   + Bug: Tools > options for Math always should be visible, not only when Options dialog is opened within Math
   => file a ticket (Thomas)




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Michel RENON-2 Michel RENON-2
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Re: Minutes of the design meeting 2018-Jan-31

Hi,

Le 31/01/2018 à 21:48, Heiko Tietze a écrit :
> [...]
> GSoC
>
>   * Full list of ideas https://pad.documentfoundation.org/p/UX-GSoC_Ideas
>   * Public list https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/GSoC/Ideas#User_Interface

Here are some suggestions based on my recent experience in teaching
LibreOffice and writing a python macro :



Impress : work on "papercut" bugs
----------------------------------


1 - Animations sets for a text box with several paragraphs don't affect
new paragraphs (not inherited)
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=57581

This is the most annoying problem that new users face :
   - they create a slide with few lines of text,
   - they add an animation on the text, to make it appear line by line
   - they test : it works correctly
   - they add one line of text (inside or at the end)
   - they test and boom... the animation is "broken"
   - they make a pause, then... close impress and open powerpoint...



2 - Editing: Text spacing changes when click in textbox
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89060

It is a subtle but very annoying visual effect.






Python macros
----------------


I had to create a macro embedded in a file.
As I had not written basic for a long time, I tried to write it in python.

The fist problem is that on Ubuntu, it is necessary to install a
specific package 'libreoffice-script-provider-python'


The second problem is that, by default, there is no tool to integrate a
python macro in a document.
I found the APSO extension [1] that allows that and is very useful.

I found some difficult points in writing python macro with that extension :
   - after modifying a python script, you have to close and re-open the
odf file
   - some inline documentation is missing : about API, and some sample code
   - the context (available via XSCRIPTCONTEXT) is missing some API,
compared to basic





So here are my suggestions for GSoC :
   - allow an easy activation of python support : a simple button would
download and install all necessary packages
   - integrate the functionality of APSO (to allow embedding/managing
python script in odf file)
   - remove the need to re-open the odf file before using a new version
of python script



Other points can be done directly in the current extension :
   - add some inline documentation about API [2]
   - add inline documentation on both ways to use python script :
     - an external script that connects to LibreOffice
     - an internal script that get called by menu/button
   - allow to create scripts empty or with comments (that provide
minimum documentation and good practice)
   - add a library of sample code (a list of "how-to ?"), that can be
easily copied in script files


Adding API to the context (available via XSCRIPTCONTEXT) can be done by
working on LibreOffice code :
/usr/lib/libreoffice/program/pythonscript/py






Cheers,

Michel






[1]
https://extensions.libreoffice.org/extensions/apso-alternative-script-organizer-for-python

[2] based on very useful page
https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Python/Transfer_from_Basic_to_Python
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Rosmaninho Rosmaninho
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Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Minutes of the design meeting 2018-Jan-31

Working on papercut bugs is somewhat crucial.
If the user experience with each module of Libre Office demands that the user has to use work-arounds to get work done in LO then he will just use other officesuites where he won't face those same issues.
Getting someone to fix those issues would be crucial.

An example in Calc like the one Renon posted in Impress is this one:

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=53300

A bug that exists since Open Office days... With LO and the TDF constantly bragging about having cleaned up so many bugs in LO it's unforgivable that UX bugs like this one are still lingering from Open Office days.



On Sat, Feb 3, 2018 at 7:58 PM, Michel RENON <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,

Le 31/01/2018 à 21:48, Heiko Tietze a écrit :
[...]
GSoC

  * Full list of ideas https://pad.documentfoundation.org/p/UX-GSoC_Ideas
  * Public list https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/GSoC/Ideas#User_Interface

Here are some suggestions based on my recent experience in teaching LibreOffice and writing a python macro :



Impress : work on "papercut" bugs
----------------------------------


1 - Animations sets for a text box with several paragraphs don't affect new paragraphs (not inherited)
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=57581

This is the most annoying problem that new users face :
  - they create a slide with few lines of text,
  - they add an animation on the text, to make it appear line by line
  - they test : it works correctly
  - they add one line of text (inside or at the end)
  - they test and boom... the animation is "broken"
  - they make a pause, then... close impress and open powerpoint...



2 - Editing: Text spacing changes when click in textbox
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89060

It is a subtle but very annoying visual effect.






Python macros
----------------


I had to create a macro embedded in a file.
As I had not written basic for a long time, I tried to write it in python.

The fist problem is that on Ubuntu, it is necessary to install a specific package 'libreoffice-script-provider-python'


The second problem is that, by default, there is no tool to integrate a python macro in a document.
I found the APSO extension [1] that allows that and is very useful.

I found some difficult points in writing python macro with that extension :
  - after modifying a python script, you have to close and re-open the odf file
  - some inline documentation is missing : about API, and some sample code
  - the context (available via XSCRIPTCONTEXT) is missing some API, compared to basic





So here are my suggestions for GSoC :
  - allow an easy activation of python support : a simple button would download and install all necessary packages
  - integrate the functionality of APSO (to allow embedding/managing python script in odf file)
  - remove the need to re-open the odf file before using a new version of python script



Other points can be done directly in the current extension :
  - add some inline documentation about API [2]
  - add inline documentation on both ways to use python script :
    - an external script that connects to LibreOffice
    - an internal script that get called by menu/button
  - allow to create scripts empty or with comments (that provide minimum documentation and good practice)
  - add a library of sample code (a list of "how-to ?"), that can be easily copied in script files


Adding API to the context (available via XSCRIPTCONTEXT) can be done by working on LibreOffice code :
/usr/lib/libreoffice/program/pythonscript/py






Cheers,

Michel






[1] https://extensions.libreoffice.org/extensions/apso-alternative-script-organizer-for-python

[2] based on very useful page https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Python/Transfer_from_Basic_to_Python


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Adolfo Jayme Barrientos-3 Adolfo Jayme Barrientos-3
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Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Minutes of the design meeting 2018-Jan-31

Pedro, I think you’ve been here enough time to realize that, as many
similar libre software projects, this project is volunteer-driven, and
that waving around your pet bugs without giving some support
(financial or otherwise) yourself is borderline offensive for those
who are contributing their free time… People are free to choose what
they will work on… And no, the age of a bug does not automatically
increase its importance. Just sayin’.
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Wol's lists Wol's lists
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Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Minutes of the design meeting 2018-Jan-31

On 05/02/18 14:19, Adolfo Jayme Barrientos wrote:
> Pedro, I think you’ve been here enough time to realize that, as many
> similar libre software projects, this project is volunteer-driven,

Are those volunteers writing software for their own personal
gratification, or are they writing it because they want other people to
use it?

  and
> that waving around your pet bugs without giving some support
> (financial or otherwise) yourself is borderline offensive for those
> who are contributing their free time… People are free to choose what
> they will work on… And no, the age of a bug does not automatically
> increase its importance. Just sayin’.

Yabbut ...

It's hard, but fixing paper-cut bugs is important. If we want LO to be
good software that is widely used, ignoring bugs like that is a good way
of losing users.

That's why I cursed blue murder when I was forced to switch at work from
WordPerfect to Word, and I don't think the situation has improved much
since then. :-)

Maybe create a GSOC project that is "fix papercut bugs"? It would
certainly be very valuable ...

Jus sayin' :-)

Cheers,
Wol
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