Re: Digest of test@documentfoundation.org issue 37 (178-182)

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Christian Lohmaier (klammer) Christian Lohmaier (klammer)
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Re: Digest of test@documentfoundation.org issue 37 (178-182)

Unfortunately, the digest did not include any base64 encoded messages this time.

So all I can say is that gmail is unsuitable for handling
digest-subscription, as it displays all messages inline. It's not
possible to reply to the single message (well, at least not if you
want to preserve a thread.
The only way to preserve a thread would be to request a single message
(using the get<number> mailinglist command (I remember Friedrich and
Florian did wonder where the message-numbers are used at all) and use
that single message as basis for the reply, but no user will do that)
- on the other hand, gmail users will very likely not use
digest-subscription (as there just is no need for this, if you don't
want to follow a thread, you can mute it and won't be bothered with
mail of the same thread.

The message itself is a multipart/digest one, with correctly delimited
messages and complete headers (also including the mail-archive.com
one) for each single mail - so "real" mailclients that don't handle
those properly/cannot even display the messages are buggy as hell and
don't deserve the name.

So again: Only problem with gmail is that it doesn't show them as
individual messages, but shows them all inline, in one message.

For reference/Documentation purposes a fullquote of the digest-mail as
received/displayed/what you get when you use reply in gmail without
editing:

On Sat, May 21, 2011 at 4:00 PM,  <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Topics (messages 178 through 182):
>
> [tdf-test] digest testing - please add some messages
>      178 - Christian Lohmaier <[hidden email]>
>
> [tdf-test] producing Mails to get a digest finally
>      179 - Christian Lohmaier <[hidden email]>
>
> [tdf-test] producing Mails to get a digest finally
>      180 - Christian Lohmaier <[hidden email]>
>
> [tdf-test] digest testing - please add some messages
>      181 - Randy Kramer <[hidden email]>
>
> [tdf-test] digest testing - please add some messages
>      182 - Florian Effenberger <[hidden email]>
>
>
>
> Hi *,
>
> please reply with some dummy messages, so I can check for myself what
> the mentioned reply problems could be...
>
> ciao
> Christian
>
> --
> Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
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>
> same thing, want some digest mail...
>
> so spamming this thread...
>
> --
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>
> On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 3:35 PM, Florian Effenberger
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Didn't follow this thread, just saw your mail by coincidence... can you
>> maybe send details to webmaster@? Maybe it's a bug somewhere...
>
> ..and at another point in the thread...
>
> --
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>
> This is a dummy message.  It has no reflection on the sender, nor the
> receiver.
>
> On Friday 20 May 2011 07:13:11 pm Christian Lohmaier wrote:
>> Hi *,
>>
>> please reply with some dummy messages, so I can check for myself what
>> the mentioned reply problems could be...
>>
>> ciao
>> Christian
>
>
>
> --
> Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [hidden email]
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>
> Quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog
> Quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog
> Quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog
> Quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog
> Quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog
>
> :)
>
> Christian Lohmaier wrote on 2011-05-21 01.13:
>>
>> please reply with some dummy messages, so I can check for myself what
>> the mentioned reply problems could be...
>
> --
> Florian Effenberger <[hidden email]>
> Steering Committee and Founding Member of The Document Foundation
> Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108
> Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff
>
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>
>

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Friedrich Strohmaier Friedrich Strohmaier
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Re: Digest of test@documentfoundation.org issue 37 (178-182)

Hi Christian, *,

Christian Lohmaier schrieb:

> Unfortunately, the digest did not include any base64 encoded messages
> this time.

strange. Probably this depends the way mails are created by kmail?
If so this one should be base64 encoded as well.

> So all I can say is that gmail is unsuitable for handling
> digest-subscription, as it displays all messages inline. It's not
> possible to reply to the single message (well, at least not if you
> want to preserve a thread.

That's not good news.

> The only way to preserve a thread would be to request a single message
> (using the get<number> mailinglist command (I remember Friedrich and
> Florian did wonder where the message-numbers are used at all) and use
> that single message as basis for the reply, but no user will do that)

but it's indeed a way for those replying only seldomly.

> - on the other hand, gmail users will very likely not use
> digest-subscription (as there just is no need for this, if you don't
> want to follow a thread, you can mute it and won't be bothered with
> mail of the same thread.

> The message itself is a multipart/digest one, with correctly delimited
> messages and complete headers (also including the mail-archive.com
> one) for each single mail - so "real" mailclients that don't handle
> those properly/cannot even display the messages are buggy as hell and
> don't deserve the name.

You talk about gmail?? ;o))

> So again: Only problem with gmail is that it doesn't show them as
> individual messages, but shows them all inline, in one message.

> For reference/Documentation purposes a fullquote of the digest-mail as
> received/displayed/what you get when you use reply in gmail without
> editing:

which isn't very useful at all..

> On Sat, May 21, 2011 at 4:00 PM,  <[hidden email]>
wrote:
>> Topics (messages 178 through 182):

[..]

Thanks for investigating
Gruß/regards
--
Friedrich
Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/
LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images

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Christian Lohmaier (klammer) Christian Lohmaier (klammer)
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Re: Digest of test@documentfoundation.org issue 37 (178-182)

Hi Friedrich, *,

On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 8:32 PM, Friedrich Strohmaier
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Christian Lohmaier schrieb:
>
>> Unfortunately, the digest did not include any base64 encoded messages
>> this time.
>
> strange. Probably this depends the way mails are created by kmail?

No - just happens that nobody on the test-list did send a message with
base64 encoding - has nothing to do with digest vs regular
subscription.

> If so this one should be base64 encoded as well.

Nope
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

>> So all I can say is that gmail is unsuitable for handling
>> digest-subscription, as it displays all messages inline. It's not
>> possible to reply to the single message (well, at least not if you
>> want to preserve a thread.
>
> That's not good news.

Well - not really bad news either, as I really don't see a single
reason for doing a digest-subscription with gmail.for a discussion
list (i.e. one where you don't only receive stuff, but also interact
with others.

>> The message itself is a multipart/digest one, with correctly delimited
>> messages and complete headers (also including the mail-archive.com
>> one) for each single mail - so "real" mailclients that don't handle
>> those properly/cannot even display the messages are buggy as hell and
>> don't deserve the name.
>
> You talk about gmail?? ;o))

No, I mean: When any client has problem displaying the digest-mails,
then that client is seriously broken.

Any client that displays them as attachment and thus as individual
message has a complete email at heand with all headerst to handle it
propery.

It's a weak spot of gmail that you cannot reply to a single mail, but
on the plus side it doesn't have any problem properly displaying the
messges with various different encodings (utf-8 and 8bit encoding (the
message-list from the maling list system, latin1 and latin9,
quoted-printabl from the postings) inline (and I'm pretty sure that it
won't have problem wih base64 ones either, just that I could not
verify that yet.

> [no individual reply with gmail possible]
> which isn't very useful at all..

Yes. And even if the user would change the subject, it would still
cause a new thread, as no references are kept... (also not when using
plain subscription, it's a general "feature" of gmail to start a new
thread when you change the subject. The only think I dislike about
gmail really.

ciao
Christian

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Friedrich Strohmaier Friedrich Strohmaier
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Order Mail #xxx (was: Digest of test@documentfoundation.org issue 37 (178-182))

Hi Christian, *,

this answers Your mail ordered through
[hidden email]

seems to work properly :o))

Christian Lohmaier schrieb:
> On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 8:32 PM, Friedrich Strohmaier
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Christian Lohmaier schrieb:

>>> Unfortunately, the digest did not include any base64 encoded
>>> messages this time.

>> strange. Probably this depends the way mails are created by kmail?

> No - just happens that nobody on the test-list did send a message with
> base64 encoding - has nothing to do with digest vs regular
> subscription.

The mails in question sent by me were not sent base64 encoded! This was
aparently done by one of the machines underway. This doesn't "work"
anymore for whatever reason.

>> If so this one should be base64 encoded as well.

> Nope
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

One more "strange" here..

>>> So all I can say is that gmail is unsuitable for handling
>>> digest-subscription, as it displays all messages inline. It's not
>>> possible to reply to the single message (well, at least not if you
>>> want to preserve a thread.

>> That's not good news.

> Well - not really bad news either, as I really don't see a single
> reason for doing a digest-subscription with gmail.  for a discussion
> list (i.e. one where you don't only receive stuff, but also interact
> with others.

That's not the question :o). It *is* done even if not reasonable at all
;o)).

[..]

> It's a weak spot of gmail that you cannot reply to a single mail, but
> on the plus side it doesn't have any problem properly displaying the
> messges with various different encodings (utf-8 and 8bit encoding (the
> message-list from the maling list system, latin1 and latin9,
> quoted-printabl from the postings) inline (and I'm pretty sure that it
> won't have problem wih base64 ones either, just that I could not
> verify that yet.

>> [no individual reply with gmail possible]
>> which isn't very useful at all..

again: beeing reasonable is not the question..

> Yes. And even if the user would change the subject, it would still
> cause a new thread, as no references are kept... (also not when using
> plain subscription, it's a general "feature" of gmail to start a new
> thread when you change the subject. The only think I dislike about
> gmail really.

.. and the fact it spares You your own listreplies ;o))

Gruß/regards
--
Friedrich
Libreoffice-Box http://libreofficebox.org/
LibreOffice and more on CD/DVD images


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