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Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] Android design?

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Michael Meeks-2 Michael Meeks-2
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Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] Android design?

Hi Mirek,

On Sat, 2012-02-04 at 23:11 +0100, Mirek M. wrote:
> A few questions from a design team member:

        Shoot ! :-)

> I'm assuming the LibreOffice Android port will sport a UI different
> from its desktop counterpart, without menus or dialogs and with a
> simple file manager (as is the standard for Android productivity
> apps).

        I hope so; file-manager-wise we have lots of the type detection, icon
goodness etc. inside the soffice core, but of course VCL is horrendously
unpleasant to look at - so perhaps some set of tweaks to the existing
file-selector (which is already being improved in various ways for CMIS
integration IIRC) would be useful for that specific piece.

>  When will development on this UI begin? How will the developer and
> design teams cooperate? Should the design team get started on a UI
> proposal now, to speed up the process? What restraints will there be
> on the design? Which features are getting ported over and which ones
> aren't?

        There is a lot to do of course; and virtually none of these issues have
been settled. There is no defined feature set, very little code, it's a
prototype ;-)

        Now - of course, collecting UI ideas, doing competitive review,
building pretty splash-screen artwork [ I suspect we may be somewhat
slow to start ;-] would be very much appreciated; it'd be great to
collect that stuff in the wiki I guess. Tor prolly has more concrete
ideas about how the Android widgets work, but of course there is a lot
to do.

        To interact with the developers, the best list is the
[hidden email] list, where there should be
both hackers, and other artists.

        Please bear in mind though, that, while we'll use whatever cool ideas
that we can, that are easiest and best to implement as we go, and we
very much appreciate some deep competitive analysis - that this is
ultimately useful and appreciate advice to the developers doing the
work :-)

        Anyhow - thanks for getting involved ! I look forward to what you come
up with.

        All the best,

                Michael.

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Stefan Knorr (Astron) Stefan Knorr (Astron)
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Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] Android design?

Hi Mirek, Michael,

>        Anyhow - thanks for getting involved ! I look forward to what you come
> up with.

Hehe. Take a look at the amazing mock-up and ideas that Mirek has been
working on for a while now:
http://clickortap.wordpress.com/frivl/

(No, none of this is perfectly specced out yet, but there's some
pretty cool stuff there.)

Astron.
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Michael Meeks-2 Michael Meeks-2
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Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] Android design?


On Wed, 2012-02-08 at 13:43 +0100, Stefan Knorr (Astron) wrote:
> Hehe. Take a look at the amazing mock-up and ideas that Mirek has been
> working on for a while now:
> http://clickortap.wordpress.com/frivl/

        They look nice :-)

> (No, none of this is perfectly specced out yet, but there's some
> pretty cool stuff there.)

        So - one thing that I (personally) rather dislike is this "bold /
italic / underline" meme that still lurks heavily in new UI designs.
IMHO these need to be firmly held underwater until they expire ;-) Good
mockups around making styles more visible and manageable, creating (and
customizing) new styles [ which can indeed include the
bold/italic/underline elements ;-] much appreciated for that.

        Otherwise, some good ideas there. Do we have excitable people wanting
to do UI work in Java - that we can plug together with the core in due
course ? it'd be great to parallelise that work.

        Thanks,

                Michael.

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Christophe Strobbe Christophe Strobbe
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Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] Android design?

Hi,

At 15:55 8-2-2012, Michael Meeks wrote:

>On Wed, 2012-02-08 at 13:43 +0100, Stefan Knorr (Astron) wrote:
> > Hehe. Take a look at the amazing mock-up and ideas that Mirek has been
> > working on for a while now:
> > http://clickortap.wordpress.com/frivl/
>
>         They look nice :-)
>
> > (No, none of this is perfectly specced out yet, but there's some
> > pretty cool stuff there.)
>
>         So - one thing that I (personally) rather dislike is this "bold /
>italic / underline" meme that still lurks heavily in new UI designs.
>IMHO these need to be firmly held underwater until they expire ;-)

Thanks a lot for highlighting this Michael. I also wish this wicked
witch were dead.


>Good
>mockups around making styles more visible and manageable, creating (and
>customizing) new styles [ which can indeed include the
>bold/italic/underline elements ;-] much appreciated for that.

Last month there was a short thread on the LibreOffice-design list
about how the UI of LibreOffice could be modified to encourage the
correct use of styles (as opposed to ad-hoc styling). (The thread
started at
<http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/msg03586.html>.)
We should continue thinking about this.


>         Otherwise, some good ideas there. Do we have excitable people wanting
>to do UI work in Java - that we can plug together with the core in due
>course ? it'd be great to parallelise that work.



Best regards,

Christophe


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mirek2 mirek2
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Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] Android design?

In reply to this post by Michael Meeks-2
Hi Michael,
(Since this is purely UI talk, I'm only answering on the UX advise mailing list)

2012/2/8 Michael Meeks <[hidden email]>

On Wed, 2012-02-08 at 13:43 +0100, Stefan Knorr (Astron) wrote:
> Hehe. Take a look at the amazing mock-up and ideas that Mirek has been
> working on for a while now:
> http://clickortap.wordpress.com/frivl/

       They look nice :-)

Thanks. :) 

> (No, none of this is perfectly specced out yet, but there's some
> pretty cool stuff there.)

       So - one thing that I (personally) rather dislike is this "bold /
italic / underline" meme that still lurks heavily in new UI designs.
IMHO these need to be firmly held underwater until they expire ;-) Good
mockups around making styles more visible and manageable, creating (and
customizing) new styles [ which can indeed include the
bold/italic/underline elements ;-] much appreciated for that.

I beg to differ here: having up-front "Bold", "Italic", and "Underline" buttons for quick formatting is always going to be better than forcing the user to go through a drop-down menu for these items. If the user later wishes to color all bolded items in the document, he can use the search tool for that.

I did hide the font and size drop downs under the overflow menu, though, since they are almost always use for whole paragraphs -- paragraph styles are more appropriate here.

I also put in two distinct style drop downs -- one for paragraph styles, one for character styles, to differentiate between what the styles apply to and so that a person using styles frequently doesn't have to continually switch between "character" and "paragraph" tabs.

In Citrus UI, I used colors to make style drop downs more prominent, but this didn't seem appropriate for Android's Holo theme.

       Otherwise, some good ideas there. Do we have excitable people wanting
to do UI work in Java - that we can plug together with the core in due
course ? it'd be great to parallelise that work.

       Thanks,

               Michael.

--
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matm matm
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Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] Android design?

In reply to this post by Christophe Strobbe
Hello all,

why not gather best of both worlds.

Warmful users are used to the icons B U I, so let them have it.  
Underneath, use fuzzy logic and apply styles:
If selection is empty or the selection looks like a paragraph, use a block  
style, else a char style.

My 2 cents.

Mat M
--
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Le Wed, 08 Feb 2012 16:24:14 +0100, Christophe Strobbe  
<[hidden email]> a écrit:

> Hi,
>
> At 15:55 8-2-2012, Michael Meeks wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 2012-02-08 at 13:43 +0100, Stefan Knorr (Astron) wrote:
>> > Hehe. Take a look at the amazing mock-up and ideas that Mirek has been
>> > working on for a while now:
>> > http://clickortap.wordpress.com/frivl/
>>
>>         They look nice :-)
>>
>> > (No, none of this is perfectly specced out yet, but there's some
>> > pretty cool stuff there.)
>>
>>         So - one thing that I (personally) rather dislike is this "bold  
>> /
>> italic / underline" meme that still lurks heavily in new UI designs.
>> IMHO these need to be firmly held underwater until they expire ;-)
>
> Thanks a lot for highlighting this Michael. I also wish this wicked  
> witch were dead.
>
>
>> Good
>> mockups around making styles more visible and manageable, creating (and
>> customizing) new styles [ which can indeed include the
>> bold/italic/underline elements ;-] much appreciated for that.
>
> Last month there was a short thread on the LibreOffice-design list about  
> how the UI of LibreOffice could be modified to encourage the correct use  
> of styles (as opposed to ad-hoc styling). (The thread started at  
> <http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/msg03586.html>.) We  
> should continue thinking about this.
>
>
>>         Otherwise, some good ideas there. Do we have excitable people  
>> wanting
>> to do UI work in Java - that we can plug together with the core in due
>> course ? it'd be great to parallelise that work.
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Christophe
>
>


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