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The removing German names in the code

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tagezi

The removing German names in the code

Hi all,

I have started my work with documentation. I am trying to select
information about Calc functions. And I think that writing a script is good
idea for it. And I have started it. But I have noticed that names and
descriptions of functions do not have a common part in macros name. For
example:
the function RAND.
for its name: SC_OPCODE_RANDOM
for its description: SC_HID_FUNC_ZUFALLSZAHL

It would be convenient to substitute the German name SC_HID_FUNC_ZUFALLSZAHL
with English SC_HID_FUNC_RANDOM. But I see that SC_HID_FUNC_ZUFALLSZAHL is
used in HELP ( helpcontent2/helpers/help_hid.lst and
helpcontent2/source/text/scalc/01/04060106.xhp).
Should I substitute ZUFALLSZAHL to RANDOM in files of Help too?
What should I do with files of l10n? Will they be assembled automatically
or I should change names there as well?

Best regards,
Lera

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Martin Srebotnjak

Re: [libreoffice-l10n] The removing German names in the code

Please do not touch that.

By changing those names you touch the translatable strings (both function
names and the help strings using it) - and make them untranslated (actually
probably fuzzy) in about 130 languages! Please spare about 130 translation
teams of this Sysyphus work.

Lp, m.

2015-09-10 14:25 GMT+02:00 Lera <[hidden email]>:

> Hi all,
>
> I have started my work with documentation. I am trying to select
> information about Calc functions. And I think that writing a script is good
> idea for it. And I have started it. But I have noticed that names and
> descriptions of functions do not have a common part in macros name. For
> example:
> the function RAND.
> for its name: SC_OPCODE_RANDOM
> for its description: SC_HID_FUNC_ZUFALLSZAHL
>
> It would be convenient to substitute the German name
> SC_HID_FUNC_ZUFALLSZAHL
> with English SC_HID_FUNC_RANDOM. But I see that SC_HID_FUNC_ZUFALLSZAHL is
> used in HELP ( helpcontent2/helpers/help_hid.lst and
> helpcontent2/source/text/scalc/01/04060106.xhp).
> Should I substitute ZUFALLSZAHL to RANDOM in files of Help too?
> What should I do with files of l10n? Will they be assembled automatically
> or I should change names there as well?
>
> Best regards,
> Lera
>
>
>
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>

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Khaled Hosny

Re: [libreoffice-l10n] The removing German names in the code

I do not really understand some translators insistence on touching
anything, ever. Yes translation is hard, but so is any other part of the
development. Are you suggesting that everything is kept frozen for ever
because it affects “about 130 languages”! This is becoming really
absurd.

Regards,
Khaled

On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 02:43:33PM +0200, Martin Srebotnjak wrote:

> Please do not touch that.
>
> By changing those names you touch the translatable strings (both function
> names and the help strings using it) - and make them untranslated (actually
> probably fuzzy) in about 130 languages! Please spare about 130 translation
> teams of this Sysyphus work.
>
> Lp, m.
>
> 2015-09-10 14:25 GMT+02:00 Lera <[hidden email]>:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I have started my work with documentation. I am trying to select
> > information about Calc functions. And I think that writing a script is good
> > idea for it. And I have started it. But I have noticed that names and
> > descriptions of functions do not have a common part in macros name. For
> > example:
> > the function RAND.
> > for its name: SC_OPCODE_RANDOM
> > for its description: SC_HID_FUNC_ZUFALLSZAHL
> >
> > It would be convenient to substitute the German name
> > SC_HID_FUNC_ZUFALLSZAHL
> > with English SC_HID_FUNC_RANDOM. But I see that SC_HID_FUNC_ZUFALLSZAHL is
> > used in HELP ( helpcontent2/helpers/help_hid.lst and
> > helpcontent2/source/text/scalc/01/04060106.xhp).
> > Should I substitute ZUFALLSZAHL to RANDOM in files of Help too?
> > What should I do with files of l10n? Will they be assembled automatically
> > or I should change names there as well?
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Lera
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
> > Problems?
> > http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
> > Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/
> > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> > deleted
> >
> >
>
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Martin Srebotnjak

Re: [libreoffice-l10n] The removing German names in the code

Khaled,

beautifyng code and with that making work for volunteer localizers is
really questionable. There is something called comments in code that is
just perfect for such situations.

Please revise all my posts to all Ooo and LO mailing lists in the past what
15 years - I am not against development, but adamnantly oppose
lartpourlartistic changes that cause a myriad of work to l10n teams.

Lp, m.
10. sep. 2015 15:09 je oseba "Khaled Hosny" <[hidden email]>
napisala:

> I do not really understand some translators insistence on touching
> anything, ever. Yes translation is hard, but so is any other part of the
> development. Are you suggesting that everything is kept frozen for ever
> because it affects “about 130 languages”! This is becoming really
> absurd.
>
> Regards,
> Khaled
>
> On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 02:43:33PM +0200, Martin Srebotnjak wrote:
> > Please do not touch that.
> >
> > By changing those names you touch the translatable strings (both function
> > names and the help strings using it) - and make them untranslated
> (actually
> > probably fuzzy) in about 130 languages! Please spare about 130
> translation
> > teams of this Sysyphus work.
> >
> > Lp, m.
> >
> > 2015-09-10 14:25 GMT+02:00 Lera <[hidden email]>:
> >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > I have started my work with documentation. I am trying to select
> > > information about Calc functions. And I think that writing a script is
> good
> > > idea for it. And I have started it. But I have noticed that names and
> > > descriptions of functions do not have a common part in macros name. For
> > > example:
> > > the function RAND.
> > > for its name: SC_OPCODE_RANDOM
> > > for its description: SC_HID_FUNC_ZUFALLSZAHL
> > >
> > > It would be convenient to substitute the German name
> > > SC_HID_FUNC_ZUFALLSZAHL
> > > with English SC_HID_FUNC_RANDOM. But I see that
> SC_HID_FUNC_ZUFALLSZAHL is
> > > used in HELP ( helpcontent2/helpers/help_hid.lst and
> > > helpcontent2/source/text/scalc/01/04060106.xhp).
> > > Should I substitute ZUFALLSZAHL to RANDOM in files of Help too?
> > > What should I do with files of l10n? Will they be assembled
> automatically
> > > or I should change names there as well?
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > > Lera
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
> > > Problems?
> > > http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
> > > Posting guidelines + more:
> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> > > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/
> > > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> > > deleted
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
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> > Problems?
> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
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> > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/
> > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> deleted
>

sophi

Re: [libreoffice-l10n] The removing German names in the code

Hi Martin,
Le 10/09/2015 15:15, Martin Srebotnjak a écrit :
> Khaled,
>
> beautifyng code and with that making work for volunteer localizers is
> really questionable. There is something called comments in code that is
> just perfect for such situations.

This can be automated without the strings being modified. This was a
request we add and which is taken into account by developers. Cloph
confirmed that all can be automated too. So it's a transparent change
for translators.
>
> Please revise all my posts to all Ooo and LO mailing lists in the past what
> 15 years - I am not against development, but adamnantly oppose
> lartpourlartistic changes that cause a myriad of work to l10n teams.

we are on the same page :)
Cheers
Sophie

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GSM: +33683901545
IRC: sophi
Co-founder - Release coordinator
The Document Foundation

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sophi

Re: The removing German names in the code

In reply to this post by tagezi

Hi Lera,
Le 10/09/2015 14:25, Lera a écrit :
> Hi all,
>
> I have started my work with documentation.

Great, thanks a lot!
I am trying to select
> information about Calc functions. And I think that writing a script is good
> idea for it. And I have started it. But I have noticed that names and
> descriptions of functions do not have a common part in macros name. For
> example:
> the function RAND.
> for its name: SC_OPCODE_RANDOM
> for its description: SC_HID_FUNC_ZUFALLSZAHL

You're working on the help files, right?
>
> It would be convenient to substitute the German name SC_HID_FUNC_ZUFALLSZAHL
> with English SC_HID_FUNC_RANDOM. But I see that SC_HID_FUNC_ZUFALLSZAHL is
> used in HELP ( helpcontent2/helpers/help_hid.lst and
> helpcontent2/source/text/scalc/01/04060106.xhp).
> Should I substitute ZUFALLSZAHL to RANDOM in files of Help too?
> What should I do with files of l10n? Will they be assembled automatically
> or I should change names there as well?

What do you mean by assembled?
Cheers
Sophie

--
Sophie Gautier [hidden email]
GSM: +33683901545
IRC: sophi
Co-founder - Release coordinator
The Document Foundation

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tagezi

Re: [libreoffice-l10n] The removing German names in the code

In reply to this post by Martin Srebotnjak

Hi Martin,

В письме от 10 сентября 2015 14:43:33 пользователь Martin Srebotnjak написал:
> Please do not touch that.
>
> By changing those names you touch the translatable strings (both function
> names and the help strings using it) - and make them untranslated (actually
> probably fuzzy) in about 130 languages! Please spare about 130 translation
> teams of this Sysyphus work.

We have to get rid of the old burden. It is needed not only for my script, but
for a vision of a broad picture. Three people are trying to make the
comparison table for Calc and Excel function for a long time already. Besides
this will simplify any automation that may be required in the future. If I do
not make these changes, a man who decides to do some automation for our
documentation team would have to do the same research again, as well as a
person who would want to take part in the development of help. (Maybe
therefore, our help has got outdated so much.)
Not to speak of the fact that it's simply not professional.
Additionally, some function description is not correct, some is identical, but
should be different. Maybe we don't make any changes in it, because people in
130 languages have to translate again. What sense does it make? Let everything
be as before, so everyone would work as less as possible?

PS: I do not say that some developers have to do it. I can do it myself. I
would like only to get some explanations. But if everybody does not agree, I
can leave it without the proposed changes and finish the script in another way.

Best regards,
Lera

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tagezi

Re: The removing German names in the code

In reply to this post by sophi

В письме от 10 сентября 2015 16:31:22 пользователь Sophie написал:

> Le 10/09/2015 14:25, Lera a écrit :
> > information about Calc functions. And I think that writing a script is
> > good
> > idea for it. And I have started it. But I have noticed that names and
> > descriptions of functions do not have a common part in macros name. For
> > example:
> > the function RAND.
> > for its name: SC_OPCODE_RANDOM
> > for its description: SC_HID_FUNC_ZUFALLSZAHL
>
> You're working on the help files, right?

Yes, and on them too.
I want to make a table with all functions, their descriptions and IDKeys. Here
is an example [1]. I have started to make the script for it. [2] It will help
us to see mistakes and inefficiencies and it will be easier to analyse what is
happening with functions of Calc.

> > It would be convenient to substitute the German name
> > SC_HID_FUNC_ZUFALLSZAHL with English SC_HID_FUNC_RANDOM. But I see that
> > SC_HID_FUNC_ZUFALLSZAHL is used in HELP (
> > helpcontent2/helpers/help_hid.lst and
> > helpcontent2/source/text/scalc/01/04060106.xhp).
> > Should I substitute ZUFALLSZAHL to RANDOM in files of Help too?
> > What should I do with files of l10n? Will they be assembled automatically
> > or I should change names there as well?
I mean, should I make changes in files of l10n or they will be made their
selves automatically without me (maybe some script does it)?

[1] https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/User:Tagezi/CalcFunction
[2] https://github.com/tagezi/loconfuscripts

Best regards,
Lera

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