[libreoffice-l10n] Updated templates for master

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Sveinn í Felli-2 Sveinn í Felli-2
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[libreoffice-l10n] Updated templates for master

Hi,

(not going to rant about all the 7000+ unnecessary fuzzies and false
positive checks - but still...)

There is a weird string in LibreOffice master – UI -->
extensions/messages.po --> Unit #137750341
Seems there's no translatable text and thus no translation possible.

Can someone check in their language?

Sveinn í Felli

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kelemeng kelemeng
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Updated templates for master

Hi Sveinn

It seems like the empty sting was marked for translation:

#define RID_UPDATE_BUBBLE_DOWNLOADING
NC_("RID_UPDATE_BUBBLE_DOWNLOADING", "")

https://opengrok.libreoffice.org/xref/core/extensions/inc/strings.hrc#320

This RID_UPDATE_BUBBLE_DOWNLOADING was an empty string before the gettext
migration too:
https://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/extensions/source/update/check/updatehdl.src?id=00657aef09d854c74fb426a935a3e8b1fc390bb0

But I think now the gettext framework would retrieve the mo file header
here, which is probably not the expected behavior.

Could you file a bug report please?

Regards
Gabor



2017-10-06 10:12 GMT+02:00 Sveinn í Felli <[hidden email]>:

> Hi,
>
> (not going to rant about all the 7000+ unnecessary fuzzies and false
> positive checks - but still...)
>
> There is a weird string in LibreOffice master – UI -->
> extensions/messages.po --> Unit #137750341
> Seems there's no translatable text and thus no translation possible.
>
> Can someone check in their language?
>
> Sveinn í Felli
>
> --
> To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
> Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-uns
> ubscribe/
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> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/
> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> deleted
>

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Sveinn í Felli-2 Sveinn í Felli-2
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Updated templates for master

Hi Gabor;

There are more creepy things circulating:

For example in LibreOffice master – UI --> wizards/source/resources.po
--> Unit #137767072 I get this in the downloaded PO-file:

#. zRGEs
#: resources_en_US.properties
#, fuzzy
msgctxt ""
"resources_en_US.properties\n"
"RID_COMMON_21\n"
"property.text"
msgid ""
"The wizard could not be run, because important files were not found.\\n"
"Under 'Tools - Options - %PRODUCTNAME - Paths' click the 'Default'
button to "
"reset the paths to the original default settings.\\n"
"Then run the wizard again."
msgstr ""
"Ekki tókst að keyra leiðarvísinn, þar sem mikilvægar skrár fundust ekki.\n"
"Farðu í 'Verkfæri - Valkostir - %PRODUCTNAME - Slóðir' smelltu á "
"'Sjálfgefið' hnappinn til að endursetja slóðirnar á upprunalegar
stillingar.\n"
"Keyrðu svo aftur leiðarvísinn."

You see the double backslash in the newline entities, compared to the
"normal" ones in my older translation. There's a bunch of similar
issues; possibly my download got somehow fubar-ed, will try again later.
But possibly this is a more serious server-side matter!

Will file a bug once someone else confirms the behaviour for other
languages.

Best regards,
Sveinn í Felli

Þann fös  6.okt 2017 08:52, skrifaði Gabor Kelemen:

> Hi Sveinn
>
> It seems like the empty sting was marked for translation:
>
> #define RID_UPDATE_BUBBLE_DOWNLOADING
> NC_("RID_UPDATE_BUBBLE_DOWNLOADING", "")
>
> https://opengrok.libreoffice.org/xref/core/extensions/inc/strings.hrc#320
>
> This RID_UPDATE_BUBBLE_DOWNLOADING was an empty string before the gettext
> migration too:
> https://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/extensions/source/update/check/updatehdl.src?id=00657aef09d854c74fb426a935a3e8b1fc390bb0
>
> But I think now the gettext framework would retrieve the mo file header
> here, which is probably not the expected behavior.
>
> Could you file a bug report please?
>
> Regards
> Gabor
>
>
>
> 2017-10-06 10:12 GMT+02:00 Sveinn í Felli <[hidden email]>:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> (not going to rant about all the 7000+ unnecessary fuzzies and false
>> positive checks - but still...)
>>
>> There is a weird string in LibreOffice master – UI -->
>> extensions/messages.po --> Unit #137750341
>> Seems there's no translatable text and thus no translation possible.
>>
>> Can someone check in their language?
>>
>> Sveinn í Felli
>>
>> --
>> To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
>> Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-uns
>> ubscribe/
>> Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
>> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/
>> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
>> deleted
>>
>


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Martin Srebotnjak Martin Srebotnjak
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Updated templates for master

Hi,

you are correct, that string is now buggy, but it is as such some time in
the 6.0/master ...

Lp, m.

2017-10-06 11:04 GMT+02:00 Sveinn í Felli <[hidden email]>:

> Hi Gabor;
>
> There are more creepy things circulating:
>
> For example in LibreOffice master – UI --> wizards/source/resources.po -->
> Unit #137767072 I get this in the downloaded PO-file:
>
> #. zRGEs
> #: resources_en_US.properties
> #, fuzzy
> msgctxt ""
> "resources_en_US.properties\n"
> "RID_COMMON_21\n"
> "property.text"
> msgid ""
> "The wizard could not be run, because important files were not found.\\n"
> "Under 'Tools - Options - %PRODUCTNAME - Paths' click the 'Default' button
> to "
> "reset the paths to the original default settings.\\n"
> "Then run the wizard again."
> msgstr ""
> "Ekki tókst að keyra leiðarvísinn, þar sem mikilvægar skrár fundust
> ekki.\n"
> "Farðu í 'Verkfæri - Valkostir - %PRODUCTNAME - Slóðir' smelltu á "
> "'Sjálfgefið' hnappinn til að endursetja slóðirnar á upprunalegar
> stillingar.\n"
> "Keyrðu svo aftur leiðarvísinn."
>
> You see the double backslash in the newline entities, compared to the
> "normal" ones in my older translation. There's a bunch of similar issues;
> possibly my download got somehow fubar-ed, will try again later.
> But possibly this is a more serious server-side matter!
>
> Will file a bug once someone else confirms the behaviour for other
> languages.
>
> Best regards,
> Sveinn í Felli
>
>
> Þann fös  6.okt 2017 08:52, skrifaði Gabor Kelemen:
>
>> Hi Sveinn
>>
>> It seems like the empty sting was marked for translation:
>>
>> #define RID_UPDATE_BUBBLE_DOWNLOADING
>> NC_("RID_UPDATE_BUBBLE_DOWNLOADING", "")
>>
>> https://opengrok.libreoffice.org/xref/core/extensions/inc/strings.hrc#320
>>
>> This RID_UPDATE_BUBBLE_DOWNLOADING was an empty string before the gettext
>> migration too:
>> https://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/extensi
>> ons/source/update/check/updatehdl.src?id=00657aef09d85
>> 4c74fb426a935a3e8b1fc390bb0
>>
>> But I think now the gettext framework would retrieve the mo file header
>> here, which is probably not the expected behavior.
>>
>> Could you file a bug report please?
>>
>> Regards
>> Gabor
>>
>>
>>
>> 2017-10-06 10:12 GMT+02:00 Sveinn í Felli <[hidden email]>:
>>
>> Hi,
>>>
>>> (not going to rant about all the 7000+ unnecessary fuzzies and false
>>> positive checks - but still...)
>>>
>>> There is a weird string in LibreOffice master – UI -->
>>> extensions/messages.po --> Unit #137750341
>>> Seems there's no translatable text and thus no translation possible.
>>>
>>> Can someone check in their language?
>>>
>>> Sveinn í Felli
>>>
>>> --
>>> To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
>>> Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-uns
>>> ubscribe/
>>> Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
>>> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/
>>> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
>>> deleted
>>>
>>>
>>
>
> --
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> deleted
>

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Sveinn í Felli-2 Sveinn í Felli-2
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Updated templates for master

Forgot to say that in Pootle the string is normal (without the
extra-backslash).

Sveinn

>
> 2017-10-06 11:04 GMT+02:00 Sveinn í Felli <[hidden email]>:
>
>> Hi Gabor;
>>
>> There are more creepy things circulating:
>>
>> For example in LibreOffice master – UI --> wizards/source/resources.po -->
>> Unit #137767072 I get this in the downloaded PO-file:
>>
>> #. zRGEs
>> #: resources_en_US.properties
>> #, fuzzy
>> msgctxt ""
>> "resources_en_US.properties\n"
>> "RID_COMMON_21\n"
>> "property.text"
>> msgid ""
>> "The wizard could not be run, because important files were not found.\\n"
>> "Under 'Tools - Options - %PRODUCTNAME - Paths' click the 'Default' button
>> to "
>> "reset the paths to the original default settings.\\n"
>> "Then run the wizard again."
>> msgstr ""
>> "Ekki tókst að keyra leiðarvísinn, þar sem mikilvægar skrár fundust
>> ekki.\n"
>> "Farðu í 'Verkfæri - Valkostir - %PRODUCTNAME - Slóðir' smelltu á"
>> "'Sjálfgefið' hnappinn til að endursetja slóðirnar á upprunalegar
>> stillingar.\n"
>> "Keyrðu svo aftur leiðarvísinn."
>>
>> You see the double backslash in the newline entities, compared to the
>> "normal" ones in my older translation. There's a bunch of similar issues;
>> possibly my download got somehow fubar-ed, will try again later.
>> But possibly this is a more serious server-side matter!
>>
>> Will file a bug once someone else confirms the behaviour for other
>> languages.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Sveinn í Felli
>>
>>
>> Þann fös  6.okt 2017 08:52, skrifaði Gabor Kelemen:
>>
>>> Hi Sveinn
>>>
>>> It seems like the empty sting was marked for translation:
>>>
>>> #define RID_UPDATE_BUBBLE_DOWNLOADING
>>> NC_("RID_UPDATE_BUBBLE_DOWNLOADING", "")
>>>
>>> https://opengrok.libreoffice.org/xref/core/extensions/inc/strings.hrc#320
>>>
>>> This RID_UPDATE_BUBBLE_DOWNLOADING was an empty string before the gettext
>>> migration too:
>>> https://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/extensi
>>> ons/source/update/check/updatehdl.src?id=00657aef09d85
>>> 4c74fb426a935a3e8b1fc390bb0
>>>
>>> But I think now the gettext framework would retrieve the mo file header
>>> here, which is probably not the expected behavior.
>>>
>>> Could you file a bug report please?
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Gabor
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 2017-10-06 10:12 GMT+02:00 Sveinn í Felli <[hidden email]>:
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> (not going to rant about all the 7000+ unnecessary fuzzies and false
>>>> positive checks - but still...)
>>>>
>>>> There is a weird string in LibreOffice master – UI -->
>>>> extensions/messages.po --> Unit #137750341
>>>> Seems there's no translatable text and thus no translation possible.
>>>>
>>>> Can someone check in their language?
>>>>
>>>> Sveinn í Felli
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
>>>> Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-uns
>>>> ubscribe/
>>>> Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
>>>> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/
>>>> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
>>>> deleted
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
>> Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-uns
>> ubscribe/
>> Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
>> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/
>> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
>> deleted
>>
>


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kelemeng kelemeng
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Updated templates for master

In reply to this post by Sveinn í Felli-2
Hi Sveinn

I see that string in git has only normal \n sequences:
https://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/tree/wizards/source/resources/resources_en_US.properties#n46

Just like on the Pootle UI.

But the downloaded file contains double backslashes for Hungarian too.

So this one may be a Pootle issue, not a source code one.

Regards
Gabor

2017-10-06 11:04 GMT+02:00 Sveinn í Felli <[hidden email]>:

> Hi Gabor;
>
> There are more creepy things circulating:
>
> For example in LibreOffice master – UI --> wizards/source/resources.po -->
> Unit #137767072 I get this in the downloaded PO-file:
>
> #. zRGEs
> #: resources_en_US.properties
> #, fuzzy
> msgctxt ""
> "resources_en_US.properties\n"
> "RID_COMMON_21\n"
> "property.text"
> msgid ""
> "The wizard could not be run, because important files were not found.\\n"
> "Under 'Tools - Options - %PRODUCTNAME - Paths' click the 'Default' button
> to "
> "reset the paths to the original default settings.\\n"
> "Then run the wizard again."
> msgstr ""
> "Ekki tókst að keyra leiðarvísinn, þar sem mikilvægar skrár fundust
> ekki.\n"
> "Farðu í 'Verkfæri - Valkostir - %PRODUCTNAME - Slóðir' smelltu á "
> "'Sjálfgefið' hnappinn til að endursetja slóðirnar á upprunalegar
> stillingar.\n"
> "Keyrðu svo aftur leiðarvísinn."
>
> You see the double backslash in the newline entities, compared to the
> "normal" ones in my older translation. There's a bunch of similar issues;
> possibly my download got somehow fubar-ed, will try again later.
> But possibly this is a more serious server-side matter!
>
> Will file a bug once someone else confirms the behaviour for other
> languages.
>
> Best regards,
> Sveinn í Felli
>
>
> Þann fös  6.okt 2017 08:52, skrifaði Gabor Kelemen:
>
>> Hi Sveinn
>>
>> It seems like the empty sting was marked for translation:
>>
>> #define RID_UPDATE_BUBBLE_DOWNLOADING
>> NC_("RID_UPDATE_BUBBLE_DOWNLOADING", "")
>>
>> https://opengrok.libreoffice.org/xref/core/extensions/inc/strings.hrc#320
>>
>> This RID_UPDATE_BUBBLE_DOWNLOADING was an empty string before the gettext
>> migration too:
>> https://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/extensi
>> ons/source/update/check/updatehdl.src?id=00657aef09d85
>> 4c74fb426a935a3e8b1fc390bb0
>>
>> But I think now the gettext framework would retrieve the mo file header
>> here, which is probably not the expected behavior.
>>
>> Could you file a bug report please?
>>
>> Regards
>> Gabor
>>
>>
>>
>> 2017-10-06 10:12 GMT+02:00 Sveinn í Felli <[hidden email]>:
>>
>> Hi,
>>>
>>> (not going to rant about all the 7000+ unnecessary fuzzies and false
>>> positive checks - but still...)
>>>
>>> There is a weird string in LibreOffice master – UI -->
>>> extensions/messages.po --> Unit #137750341
>>> Seems there's no translatable text and thus no translation possible.
>>>
>>> Can someone check in their language?
>>>
>>> Sveinn í Felli
>>>
>>> --
>>> To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email]
>>> Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-uns
>>> ubscribe/
>>> Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
>>> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/
>>> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
>>> deleted
>>>
>>>
>>
>

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Serg Bormant Serg Bormant
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Updated templates for master

https://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=029f2fdc

What the fucking shit happens again and again release to release? In
Russian we get 7_540 items to translate and most of them are tinkering
with English source items, that doesn't change anything in translated
items, but again, again, and AGAIN we need to restore by hands old
translations for new sources.

Please, please, PLEASE make English-to-English translation and play
with spaces and capital letters there...

--
wbr, sb

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sophi sophi
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Updated templates for master

In reply to this post by kelemeng
Hi all,

Le 06/10/2017 à 11:57, Gabor Kelemen a écrit :

> Hi Sveinn
>
> I see that string in git has only normal \n sequences:
> https://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/tree/wizards/source/resources/resources_en_US.properties#n46
>
> Just like on the Pootle UI.
>
> But the downloaded file contains double backslashes for Hungarian too.
>
> So this one may be a Pootle issue, not a source code one.

I'll check with Christian next week when we will be in Rome and will
give you feedback on that.
Cheers
Sophie

--
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GSM: +33683901545
IRC: sophi
Release coordinator
The Document Foundation

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Berend Ytsma Berend Ytsma
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Updated templates for master

Hello,

With the master update Frisian lost 50% of it's translations.
That can't be right.
I see a lot of languages only loose 10%

Greetings

Berend Ytsma
Frisian Translator

On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 6:11 PM, Sophie <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Le 06/10/2017 à 11:57, Gabor Kelemen a écrit :
> > Hi Sveinn
> >
> > I see that string in git has only normal \n sequences:
> > https://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/tree/wizards/
> source/resources/resources_en_US.properties#n46
> >
> > Just like on the Pootle UI.
> >
> > But the downloaded file contains double backslashes for Hungarian too.
> >
> > So this one may be a Pootle issue, not a source code one.
>
> I'll check with Christian next week when we will be in Rome and will
> give you feedback on that.
> Cheers
> Sophie
>
> --
> Sophie Gautier [hidden email]
> GSM: +33683901545
> IRC: sophi
> Release coordinator
> The Document Foundation
>
> --
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> deleted
>

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Adolfo Jayme Barrientos-3 Adolfo Jayme Barrientos-3
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Updated templates for master

In reply to this post by Serg Bormant
2017-10-06 10:45 GMT-05:00 Serg Bormant <[hidden email]>:
> https://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=029f2fdc

What is your point?

> What the fucking shit happens again and again release to release?

Watch your mouth. Nobody has put a gun down your throat to oblige you
to contribute.

> Russian we get 7_540 items to translate and most of them are tinkering
> with English source items, that doesn't change anything in translated
> items, but again, again, and AGAIN we need to restore by hands old
> translations for new sources.

You realize that Cloph fixes this behind the scenes every six months, right?

> Please, please, PLEASE make English-to-English translation and play
> with spaces and capital letters there...

You realize that this suggestion makes no sense whatsoever?

Adolfo

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sophi sophi
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Updated templates for master

Hi Adolfo

Le 6 oct. 2017 22:14, "Adolfo Jayme Barrientos" <[hidden email]> a
écrit :

2017-10-06 10:45 GMT-05:00 Serg Bormant <[hidden email]>:
> https://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=029f2fdc

What is your point?

> What the fucking shit happens again and again release to release?

Watch your mouth. Nobody has put a gun down your throat to oblige you
to contribute.

> Russian we get 7_540 items to translate and most of them are tinkering
> with English source items, that doesn't change anything in translated
> items, but again, again, and AGAIN we need to restore by hands old
> translations for new sources.

You realize that Cloph fixes this behind the scenes every six months, right?

> Please, please, PLEASE make English-to-English translation and play
> with spaces and capital letters there...

You realize that this suggestion makes no sense whatsoever?


Please all, calm down, we will look after what bugs next with Christian.
There has been changes with gettext, others with UX, we will sort out what
should be automated and what can't. As Adolfo said there won't be EN to EN
translation however. But please think that LO needs to evolve and we need
to adapt our process too, meaning that we can make mistakes together with
having to redo some work.
I'm a volunteer like you on this so be sure that I evaluate what commitment
it asks.
Cheers
Sophie

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Serg Bormant Serg Bormant
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Updated templates for master

In reply to this post by Adolfo Jayme Barrientos-3
Hi,

2017-10-06 23:12 GMT+03:00 Adolfo Jayme Barrientos <[hidden email]>:
> 2017-10-06 10:45 GMT-05:00 Serg Bormant <[hidden email]>:
>> https://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=029f2fdc
>
> What is your point?
It is very simple.
As I can see, Pootle has 135 languages now and some teams work offline.
If someone makes ONLY ONE cosmetic change in translatable strings,
everyone of 135 language teams should adopt this change.
If someone makes a bunch of cosmetic changes  (for ex. change
register, change spaces, add colons, remove colons -- I remember all
of them), everyone of 135 teams shold working hard to restore what was
alredy done.

So, what changed with this and like this commits?

1)

diff --git a/sc/inc/scfuncs.hrc b/sc/inc/scfuncs.hrc
index b1b64d2..b3a231f 100644
--- a/sc/inc/scfuncs.hrc
+++ b/sc/inc/scfuncs.hrc
- NC_("SC_OPCODE_GET_DATE", "year"),
+ NC_("SC_OPCODE_GET_DATE", "Year"),
- NC_("SC_OPCODE_GET_DATE", "month"),
+ NC_("SC_OPCODE_GET_DATE", "Month"),
- NC_("SC_OPCODE_GET_DATE", "day"),
+ NC_("SC_OPCODE_GET_DATE", "Day"),
- NC_("SC_OPCODE_GET_DATE_VALUE", "text"),
+ NC_("SC_OPCODE_GET_DATE_VALUE", "Text"),
- NC_("SC_OPCODE_GET_DIFF_DATE_360", "Date_1"),
+ NC_("SC_OPCODE_GET_DIFF_DATE_360", "Date 1"),
- NC_("SC_OPCODE_GET_DIFF_DATE_360", "Date_2"),
+ NC_("SC_OPCODE_GET_DIFF_DATE_360", "Date 2"),
... and so on ...

2) Before this in Pootle:

msgid "year"
msgstr "год"

msgid "month"
msgstr "месяц"

msgid "day"
msgstr "день"

msgid "text"
msgstr "текст"
...

3) After this in Pootle:

msgid "Year"
msgstr ""

msgid "Month"
msgstr ""

msgid "Day"
msgstr ""

msgid "Text"
msgstr ""
...

4) Than I need to translate again:

msgid "Year"
msgstr "год"

msgid "Month"
msgstr "месяц"

msgid "Day"
msgstr "день"

msgid "Text"
msgstr "текст"
...

5) The final of story is

-msgid "year"
+msgid "Year"
 msgstr "год"

-msgid "month"
+msgid "Month"
 msgstr "месяц"

-msgid "day"
+msgid "Day"
 msgstr "день"

-msgid "text"
+msgid "Text"
 msgstr "текст"
...


Is it really the Big Deal and all 135 teams need roll up their sleeves
to fix anyone irresponsible whim?

>> Please, please, PLEASE make English-to-English translation and play
>> with spaces and capital letters there...
>
> You realize that this suggestion makes no sense whatsoever?

Why not? Assign any unused language code for source and "en" for translation.

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Mikhail Balabanov Mikhail Balabanov
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Updated templates for master

Hello,

On Sat, Oct 7, 2017 at 12:53 AM, Serg Bormant <[hidden email]> wrote:

> 2017-10-06 23:12 GMT+03:00 Adolfo Jayme Barrientos <[hidden email]>:
> > 2017-10-06 10:45 GMT-05:00 Serg Bormant <[hidden email]>:
> >> https://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=029f2fdc
> > What is your point?
> It is very simple.
> As I can see, Pootle has 135 languages now and some teams work offline.
> If someone makes ONLY ONE cosmetic change in translatable strings,
> everyone of 135 language teams should adopt this change.
>


As someone who translates practically alone for my language (mainly
stealing from my sleep), I agree that this is far from effective use of
volunteers’ often very scarce spare time. Saying ‘You’re volunteers so if
you don’t want to put up with ♥♥♥♥, we’ll wait for someone who does’
doesn’t seem the best stance to take.

On the other hand, I’m also a stickler for correct typography, perfectly
composed layouts and such things and I think that ‘cosmetic’ changes often
go a long way to make a product appear much more professional and enjoyable
to work with.



> >> Please, please, PLEASE make English-to-English translation and play
> >> with spaces and capital letters there...
> >
> > You realize that this suggestion makes no sense whatsoever?
>
> Why not? Assign any unused language code for source and "en" for
> translation.
>


This seems like an attractive option but it has problems of its own (like:
when looking at the source, you will never be sure how the actual UI looks
like; many teams may actually want to implement some of the changes made to
the ‘English translation’ but they will not be notified of them and will
have to periodically search for such, etc.).

OTOH, setting that particular solution aside, I’m sure that other things
can be done to somewhat improve the situation. For example, couldn’t some
mechanism be implemented to explicitly mark certain changes as ‘small’ or
‘cosmetic’ so that the translations in Pootle are just marked as ‘Needs
work’ instead of right out deleting them? Or even better, add a new status
specifically meaning ‘Cosmetic change’ that allows re-confirming the
existing translations en masse if the changes are irrelevant to them?


Best regards,
Mihail Balabanov

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Sveinn í Felli-2 Sveinn í Felli-2
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Updated templates for master

In reply to this post by kelemeng
Þann 2017-10-06 09:57, Gabor Kelemen reit:
> But the downloaded file contains double backslashes for Hungarian too.
>
> So this one may be a Pootle issue, not a source code one.

Those strings (total of 6) did in previous version have [LF] newline
symbols, which for some reason changes to '\\n' entities in Pootle. But
uploading the file back to Pootle with normal '\n' entities in the
translations *does* work, validations tests don't complain (but my
Lokalize does).
So this is more of a strange quirk than a malfunction.

Regards,
Sveinn

>
> 2017-10-06 11:04 GMT+02:00 Sveinn í Felli <[hidden email]>:
>
>> Hi Gabor;
>>
>> There are more creepy things circulating:
>>
>> For example in LibreOffice master – UI --> wizards/source/resources.po
>> -->
>> Unit #137767072 I get this in the downloaded PO-file:
>>
>> #. zRGEs
>> #: resources_en_US.properties
>> #, fuzzy
>> msgctxt ""
>> "resources_en_US.properties\n"
>> "RID_COMMON_21\n"
>> "property.text"
>> msgid ""
>> "The wizard could not be run, because important files were not
>> found.\\n"
>> "Under 'Tools - Options - %PRODUCTNAME - Paths' click the 'Default'
>> button
>> to "
>> "reset the paths to the original default settings.\\n"
>> "Then run the wizard again."
>> msgstr ""
>> "Ekki tókst að keyra leiðarvísinn, þar sem mikilvægar skrár fundust
>> ekki.\n"
>> "Farðu í 'Verkfæri - Valkostir - %PRODUCTNAME - Slóðir' smelltu á "
>> "'Sjálfgefið' hnappinn til að endursetja slóðirnar á upprunalegar
>> stillingar.\n"
>> "Keyrðu svo aftur leiðarvísinn."
>>
>> You see the double backslash in the newline entities, compared to the
>> "normal" ones in my older translation. There's a bunch of similar
>> issues;
>> possibly my download got somehow fubar-ed, will try again later.
>> But possibly this is a more serious server-side matter!
>>
>> Will file a bug once someone else confirms the behaviour for other
>> languages.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Sveinn í Felli
>>
>>
>> Þann fös  6.okt 2017 08:52, skrifaði Gabor Kelemen:
>>
>>> Hi Sveinn
>>>
>>> It seems like the empty sting was marked for translation:
>>>
>>> #define RID_UPDATE_BUBBLE_DOWNLOADING
>>> NC_("RID_UPDATE_BUBBLE_DOWNLOADING", "")
>>>
>>> https://opengrok.libreoffice.org/xref/core/extensions/inc/strings.hrc#320
>>>
>>> This RID_UPDATE_BUBBLE_DOWNLOADING was an empty string before the
>>> gettext
>>> migration too:
>>> https://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/extensi
>>> ons/source/update/check/updatehdl.src?id=00657aef09d85
>>> 4c74fb426a935a3e8b1fc390bb0
>>>
>>> But I think now the gettext framework would retrieve the mo file
>>> header
>>> here, which is probably not the expected behavior.
>>>
>>> Could you file a bug report please?
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Gabor
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 2017-10-06 10:12 GMT+02:00 Sveinn í Felli <[hidden email]>:
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> (not going to rant about all the 7000+ unnecessary fuzzies and false
>>>> positive checks - but still...)
>>>>
>>>> There is a weird string in LibreOffice master – UI -->
>>>> extensions/messages.po --> Unit #137750341
>>>> Seems there's no translatable text and thus no translation possible.
>>>>
>>>> Can someone check in their language?
>>>>
>>>> Sveinn í Felli
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>

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Krunose Krunose
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Updated templates for master

In reply to this post by Mikhail Balabanov


On 07.10.2017 10:09, Mikhail Balabanov wrote:

> Hello,
>
> On Sat, Oct 7, 2017 at 12:53 AM, Serg Bormant <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> 2017-10-06 23:12 GMT+03:00 Adolfo Jayme Barrientos <[hidden email]>:
>>> 2017-10-06 10:45 GMT-05:00 Serg Bormant <[hidden email]>:
>>>> https://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=029f2fdc
>>> What is your point?
>> It is very simple.
>> As I can see, Pootle has 135 languages now and some teams work offline.
>> If someone makes ONLY ONE cosmetic change in translatable strings,
>> everyone of 135 language teams should adopt this change.
>>
>
> As someone who translates practically alone for my language (mainly
> stealing from my sleep), I agree that this is far from effective use of
> volunteers’ often very scarce spare time. Saying ‘You’re volunteers so if
> you don’t want to put up with ♥♥♥♥, we’ll wait for someone who does’
> doesn’t seem the best stance to take.
>
> On the other hand, I’m also a stickler for correct typography, perfectly
> composed layouts and such things and I think that ‘cosmetic’ changes often
> go a long way to make a product appear much more professional and enjoyable
> to work with.
>
>
>
>>>> Please, please, PLEASE make English-to-English translation and play
>>>> with spaces and capital letters there...
>>> You realize that this suggestion makes no sense whatsoever?
>> Why not? Assign any unused language code for source and "en" for
>> translation.
>>
>
> This seems like an attractive option but it has problems of its own (like:
> when looking at the source, you will never be sure how the actual UI looks
> like; many teams may actually want to implement some of the changes made to
> the ‘English translation’ but they will not be notified of them and will
> have to periodically search for such, etc.).
>
> OTOH, setting that particular solution aside, I’m sure that other things
> can be done to somewhat improve the situation. For example, couldn’t some
> mechanism be implemented to explicitly mark certain changes as ‘small’ or
> ‘cosmetic’ so that the translations in Pootle are just marked as ‘Needs
> work’ instead of right out deleting them? Or even better, add a new status
> specifically meaning ‘Cosmetic change’ that allows re-confirming the
> existing translations en masse if the changes are irrelevant to them?

Sometimes 'cosmetic' change could mean a difference. To me is indicative
if string is 1) in all caps, if 2) first letter is capitalized and if 3)
all letters are lowercased.

It's hard to mark what is cosmetic change from what was badly written
before and now is corrected. Fixing bad language in template is a must
and should not be optional.

That 'Month' ~ 'month' example may not make difference for Cyrillic
scripts but Latin scripts can and should change translation accordingly.

No translation should be removed. Whatever changes in original string,
mark translation as fuzzy and leave (old) translation in there.

Maybe there are volunteers who can make a script for Cyrillic writing
system which could read trough po files, convert strings to lowercase,
compare that to (Cyrillic) translation and change what needed if there
is a match. Maybe this could work for some other writing systems/scripts.

If 'cosmetic' changes need to be: better in one-word string then in
thous wrapping in two or three lines.

Kruno


>
>
> Best regards,
> Mihail Balabanov
>


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sophi sophi
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Updated templates for master

Hi all,
Le 09/10/2017 à 10:13, Krunose a écrit :

>
>
> On 07.10.2017 10:09, Mikhail Balabanov wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 7, 2017 at 12:53 AM, Serg Bormant <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> 2017-10-06 23:12 GMT+03:00 Adolfo Jayme Barrientos
>>> <[hidden email]>:
>>>> 2017-10-06 10:45 GMT-05:00 Serg Bormant <[hidden email]>:
>>>>> https://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=029f2fdc
>>>> What is your point?
>>> It is very simple.
>>> As I can see, Pootle has 135 languages now and some teams work offline.
>>> If someone makes ONLY ONE cosmetic change in translatable strings,
>>> everyone of 135 language teams should adopt this change.
>>>
>>
>> As someone who translates practically alone for my language (mainly
>> stealing from my sleep), I agree that this is far from effective use of
>> volunteers’ often very scarce spare time. Saying ‘You’re volunteers so if
>> you don’t want to put up with ♥♥♥♥, we’ll wait for someone who does’
>> doesn’t seem the best stance to take.
>>
>> On the other hand, I’m also a stickler for correct typography, perfectly
>> composed layouts and such things and I think that ‘cosmetic’ changes
>> often
>> go a long way to make a product appear much more professional and
>> enjoyable
>> to work with.
>>
>>
>>
>>>>> Please, please, PLEASE make English-to-English translation and play
>>>>> with spaces and capital letters there...
>>>> You realize that this suggestion makes no sense whatsoever?
>>> Why not? Assign any unused language code for source and "en" for
>>> translation.
>>>
>>
>> This seems like an attractive option but it has problems of its own
>> (like:
>> when looking at the source, you will never be sure how the actual UI
>> looks
>> like; many teams may actually want to implement some of the changes
>> made to
>> the ‘English translation’ but they will not be notified of them and will
>> have to periodically search for such, etc.).
>>
>> OTOH, setting that particular solution aside, I’m sure that other things
>> can be done to somewhat improve the situation. For example, couldn’t some
>> mechanism be implemented to explicitly mark certain changes as ‘small’ or
>> ‘cosmetic’ so that the translations in Pootle are just marked as ‘Needs
>> work’ instead of right out deleting them? Or even better, add a new
>> status
>> specifically meaning ‘Cosmetic change’ that allows re-confirming the
>> existing translations en masse if the changes are irrelevant to them?
>
> Sometimes 'cosmetic' change could mean a difference. To me is indicative
> if string is 1) in all caps, if 2) first letter is capitalized and if 3)
> all letters are lowercased
>
> It's hard to mark what is cosmetic change from what was badly written
> before and now is corrected. Fixing bad language in template is a must
> and should not be optional.
>
> That 'Month' ~ 'month' example may not make difference for Cyrillic
> scripts but Latin scripts can and should change translation accordingly.

I agree with you that 'cosmetic' is not easy to define. And if you look
at the changes, sometimes it's a capital, sometimes a capital and a
space, sometime it's all caps, sometime a real change, so difficult to
script either or only for a handful of strings.

Cheers
Sophie

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GSM: +33683901545
IRC: sophi
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The Document Foundation

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diego maniacco-2 diego maniacco-2
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Updated templates for master

In reply to this post by Krunose
Suggestion from Krunose looks a good compromise::

"No translation should be removed. Whatever changes in original string,
mark translation as fuzzy and leave (old) translation in there. "

What about that?

diego



On 09/10/17 10:13, Krunose wrote:

>
>
> On 07.10.2017 10:09, Mikhail Balabanov wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 7, 2017 at 12:53 AM, Serg Bormant <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> 2017-10-06 23:12 GMT+03:00 Adolfo Jayme Barrientos
>>> <[hidden email]>:
>>>> 2017-10-06 10:45 GMT-05:00 Serg Bormant <[hidden email]>:
>>>>> https://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=029f2fdc
>>>> What is your point?
>>> It is very simple.
>>> As I can see, Pootle has 135 languages now and some teams work offline.
>>> If someone makes ONLY ONE cosmetic change in translatable strings,
>>> everyone of 135 language teams should adopt this change.
>>>
>>
>> As someone who translates practically alone for my language (mainly
>> stealing from my sleep), I agree that this is far from effective use of
>> volunteers’ often very scarce spare time. Saying ‘You’re volunteers
>> so if
>> you don’t want to put up with ♥♥♥♥, we’ll wait for someone who does’
>> doesn’t seem the best stance to take.
>>
>> On the other hand, I’m also a stickler for correct typography, perfectly
>> composed layouts and such things and I think that ‘cosmetic’ changes
>> often
>> go a long way to make a product appear much more professional and
>> enjoyable
>> to work with.
>>
>>
>>
>>>>> Please, please, PLEASE make English-to-English translation and play
>>>>> with spaces and capital letters there...
>>>> You realize that this suggestion makes no sense whatsoever?
>>> Why not? Assign any unused language code for source and "en" for
>>> translation.
>>>
>>
>> This seems like an attractive option but it has problems of its own
>> (like:
>> when looking at the source, you will never be sure how the actual UI
>> looks
>> like; many teams may actually want to implement some of the changes
>> made to
>> the ‘English translation’ but they will not be notified of them and will
>> have to periodically search for such, etc.).
>>
>> OTOH, setting that particular solution aside, I’m sure that other things
>> can be done to somewhat improve the situation. For example, couldn’t
>> some
>> mechanism be implemented to explicitly mark certain changes as
>> ‘small’ or
>> ‘cosmetic’ so that the translations in Pootle are just marked as ‘Needs
>> work’ instead of right out deleting them? Or even better, add a new
>> status
>> specifically meaning ‘Cosmetic change’ that allows re-confirming the
>> existing translations en masse if the changes are irrelevant to them?
>
> Sometimes 'cosmetic' change could mean a difference. To me is
> indicative if string is 1) in all caps, if 2) first letter is
> capitalized and if 3) all letters are lowercased.
>
> It's hard to mark what is cosmetic change from what was badly written
> before and now is corrected. Fixing bad language in template is a must
> and should not be optional.
>
> That 'Month' ~ 'month' example may not make difference for Cyrillic
> scripts but Latin scripts can and should change translation accordingly.
>
> No translation should be removed. Whatever changes in original string,
> mark translation as fuzzy and leave (old) translation in there.
>
> Maybe there are volunteers who can make a script for Cyrillic writing
> system which could read trough po files, convert strings to lowercase,
> compare that to (Cyrillic) translation and change what needed if there
> is a match. Maybe this could work for some other writing systems/scripts.
>
> If 'cosmetic' changes need to be: better in one-word string then in
> thous wrapping in two or three lines.
>
> Kruno
>
>
>>
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Mihail Balabanov
>>
>
>

--
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Diego Maniacco (Südtiroler Informatik AG - Informatica Alto Adige SpA)
| Tel +39 0471 566 159
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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Christian Lohmaier (klammer) Christian Lohmaier (klammer)
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Updated templates for master

Hi *,

On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 12:38 PM, diego maniacco <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Suggestion from Krunose looks a good compromise::
>
> "No translation should be removed. Whatever changes in original string, mark
> translation as fuzzy and leave (old) translation in there. "
>
> What about that?

that also is the case, in the from of obsolete strings, just that the
not-used strings are not exported from pootle webinterface, but only
in on-disk files. However as gettext migration changed
filenames/merged multiple ones into a messages.po, this is not true
for all files in the export - but for those cases you have the libo54
projects - that is what master was before it was updated - so no need
to worry about having lost translations or not being able to access
them.

ciao
Christian

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Michael Bauer Michael Bauer
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Updated templates for master

In reply to this post by Sveinn í Felli-2

> Sometimes 'cosmetic' change could mean a difference. To me is
> indicative if string is 1) in all caps, if 2) first letter is
> capitalized and if 3) all letters are lowercased.

Not a good reason Kruno. For one, not all scripts even entertain the
idea of caps. CJK, Nagari, Amhara, Arabic-based ... non of them have
caps. Yet somehow they manage to make their UI work.

Secondly, quite a lot of locales have strict lowercasing. Like ours. So
caps in en-US don't make a blind bit of difference to our translations.

Thirdly, there is largely no rhyme, no reason, and apparently no season.
In en-US, caps follow whatever the flavour of the month is. Evidence?
Sure. Just as Microsoft was abandoning sentence case, LibreOffice went
for it, or the other way round, I can't remember. Either way, round
about the same time, their respective UI went *exactly* the opposite way.

If LO does not want to start treating en-US as a translatable locale, it
really needs to introduce a new change category into Pootle of "cap
change" which does not void existing translations but introduces a QA
flag like "missing placeholder".

Right now, it feels like every time en-US play with their caps, they
give 100 or so other locales the finger, as if our time didn't matter
two hoots. And it's NOT like this is a novel issue, we've debated this
ad nauseum and STILL you dump these on us volunteers. Do you know how
much I'd charge for this kind of time?

Michael

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Krunose Krunose
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Updated templates for master



On 12.10.2017 10:46, Michael Bauer wrote:

>
>> Sometimes 'cosmetic' change could mean a difference. To me is
>> indicative if string is 1) in all caps, if 2) first letter is
>> capitalized and if 3) all letters are lowercased.
>
> Not a good reason Kruno. For one, not all scripts even entertain the
> idea of caps. CJK, Nagari, Amhara, Arabic-based ... non of them have
> caps. Yet somehow they manage to make their UI work.
>
> Secondly, quite a lot of locales have strict lowercasing. Like ours.
> So caps in en-US don't make a blind bit of difference to our
> translations.
>
> Thirdly, there is largely no rhyme, no reason, and apparently no
> season. In en-US, caps follow whatever the flavour of the month is.
> Evidence? Sure. Just as Microsoft was abandoning sentence case,
> LibreOffice went for it, or the other way round, I can't remember.
> Either way, round about the same time, their respective UI went
> *exactly* the opposite way.
>
> If LO does not want to start treating en-US as a translatable locale,
> it really needs to introduce a new change category into Pootle of "cap
> change" which does not void existing translations but introduces a QA
> flag like "missing placeholder".
>
> Right now, it feels like every time en-US play with their caps, they
> give 100 or so other locales the finger, as if our time didn't matter
> two hoots. And it's NOT like this is a novel issue, we've debated this
> ad nauseum and STILL you dump these on us volunteers. Do you know how
> much I'd charge for this kind of time?
>
> Michael
>

Translating LibreOffice bought me a house.

Kruno

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