removing mailing list prefixes?

Hello,

today, a discussion started on the certification mailing list whether we
want to get rid of those mailing list prefixes in the subject, like
[libreoffice-announce], [libreoffice-conference] or [tdf-discuss].

This would be helpful in several ways, like DKIM and other e-mail
signing tools don't break, plus it looks much better in the mail overview.

However, this depends on how people filter their e-mail. Filtering on
the subject line is a *real* bad idea, rather use the List-Post or
List-Id header. However, some mail clients don't support that.

So, my question is:
Are there mailing lists where we could get rid of this prefix? What do
people think?

I would imagine that for the users list, removing the prefix is a bad
idea, while for other lists, it could work pretty well.

Thoughts?
Florian

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I like the prefixes, given how many lists there are. You know straight
away where you are.

Michael

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I only can agree, but I would change my filters when necessary. BTW: I
would not think it is ugly to have prefixes ;)

2012/8/2 Michael Bauer <[hidden email]>

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Hi,

2012/8/2 Florian Effenberger <[hidden email]>: I am using GMail for all of my stuff and I think it is not possible to
set up a filter to the source of the mail as mentioned above.

And, as others mentioned, you always know "where you are" when
answering. This also a thing for GMail, where you are not able to see
a thread-tree as in Thunderbird.

My 2ct

Volker


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Hello,

Volker Merschmann wrote on 2012-08-02 09:04:
> I am using GMail for all of my stuff and I think it is not possible to
> set up a filter to the source of the mail as mentioned above.

indeed, Google Mail's filters are somewhat limited, unfortunately. At
least for a geek like me. ;-)

> And, as others mentioned, you always know "where you are" when
> answering. This also a thing for GMail, where you are not able to see
> a thread-tree as in Thunderbird.

Might it make sense to ask that question on each any any list we have,
so people can decide individually? Or would that be wasted time - anyone
has a feeling?

Florian

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On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 3:28 PM, Florian Effenberger
<[hidden email]> wrote:
I use gmail. I use the prefixes for filtering mail. I would not like
for all of them to be removed, because they are so useful. It is
unfortunate that the "libreoffice-xxx" prefixes are so long. For some
lists I don't care, because I do not filter them.

--Jean

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Hi Florian,

Le 2012-08-01 18:28, Florian Effenberger a écrit :
Perhaps we should be looking at it from another view point --> we can
most likely assume that the majority of our users have some working
knowledge, or, less knowledge of filtering emails. Users joining the
more specialized mail lists may have a little more knowledge, but, in
general, our users (IMO) have lower levels of knowledge of
working/managing email filtering systems..

On the other hand, we can most likely assume that our devs and hardware
managers have a higher working knowledge of managing email filtering and
very good knowledge of running email clients; removing mailing list
prefixes for this group will have very little impact as they can easily
adapt.

As we are trying to enlist the help of more users (potentially
"members") to help out with various tasks on the project, asking from
our users to join at a higher entry level of knowledge of working their
email clients may be asking too much. We should try to gain the help of
our users by offering them easy points of entry into our project
discussions.

I think it may be better to leave the prefixes in if the people who run
our mailservers have the knowledge to run them, even if they demand a
little more attention. This, rather than make the lives of users more
complicated by removing the prefixes.

It all comes down to knowledge. If our IT members are knowledgeable
enough to make the project work by making it easier for the user base to
join in on our discussions, even if it means a little more work for the
IT members, then we should keep the suffixes. There is no point in
disenfranchising part of our precious user base if we can avoid it.

Keeping things simple for our user base helps with community building.

Cheers,

Marc


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Hi Marc,

Marc Paré wrote on 2012-08-06 08:12:
> Perhaps we should be looking at it from another view point --> we can
> most likely assume that the majority of our users have some working
> knowledge, or, less knowledge of filtering emails. Users joining the
> more specialized mail lists may have a little more knowledge, but, in
> general, our users (IMO) have lower levels of knowledge of
> working/managing email filtering systems..

thanks for that proposal, indeed! This is something we indeed could do,
and I'd like to enhance the idea bit:

How about writing to all the mailing lists (global/English ones for a
start), sending a short link to a poll, where all list participants
could cast their vote?

I can imagine that on developer, infrastructure and other lists the
suffix could be omitted, while on users and discuss lists it is more
likely needed. In order to find that out, we could simply ask the
subscribers.

Do you think that makes sense, or is it too much spamming?

Florian

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Le 2012-08-06 10:54, Florian Effenberger a écrit :
Quite frankly, I think that on the users and discussion lists, people
will have very little idea of what such a poll would be about and will
only realize its impact after these are removed. IMO, we should keep
suffixes where entry-level users and the such are in majority, and,
remove prefixes where devs and dev-level users are in majority -- this
last group of users will have an easier time of "re-tooling" their filters.

I would rather see TDF/LibreOffice make it as easy and the
least-troublesome of an experience for end-users to join in on the
community project. This, in some way, will establish a pattern whereby
users who later join as members and later offer their particular skills
to the project will join more specialized lists where the prefixes are
not available.

Cheers,

Marc



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Hi Volker, *,

On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 9:04 AM, Volker Merschmann <[hidden email]> wrote:
> 2012/8/2 Florian Effenberger <[hidden email]>:
>
>> However, this depends on how people filter their e-mail. Filtering on the
>> subject line is a *real* bad idea, rather use the List-Post or List-Id
>> header. However, some mail clients don't support that.
>>
> I am using GMail for all of my stuff and I think it is not possible to
> set up a filter to the source of the mail as mentioned above.

That might have been true in the very early days of gmail, but
nowadays this isn't a problem. Even when you use "filter messages like
this" on a mail from a mailinglist, it already uses/suggests to use
the list-ID as filter argument, for example this list:

list:"<moderators.documentfoundation.org>"

That being said: I don't mind either way. With the prefixes I don't
have to add labels myself, while if there were no prefixed I'd have to
setup according rules myself (but then would be free to choose
whatever label I like)

ciao
Christian

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Hi Marc,

Marc Paré wrote on 2012-08-07 10:02:
> I would rather see TDF/LibreOffice make it as easy and the
> least-troublesome of an experience for end-users to join in on the
> community project. This, in some way, will establish a pattern whereby
> users who later join as members and later offer their particular skills
> to the project will join more specialized lists where the prefixes are
> not available.

I've decided to leave that idea on hold for the moment. I receive
various feedback, rather contrary, so it is indeed the best solution to
leave as is, because that hurts the least - if we remove the prefix, it
might cause more problems than leaving it in ;)

Florian

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