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two dots above the i in presentation.

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Sampath Rajapakse Sampath Rajapakse
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two dots above the i in presentation.

Dear Document Foundation,

 

I don't know if this is the correct email address to be contacting you for
this sort of thing.

 

But I have noticed that in presentation, when I type naive, two dots appear
above the i. This only appears to happen when I type the word naive and not
anything else I have typed so far.

 

Yours Sincerely,

 

Sampath Rajapakse


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doug-2 doug-2
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Re: two dots above the i in presentation.

On 03/12/2012 06:57 PM, Sampath Rajapakse wrote:

> Dear Document Foundation,
>
>
>
> I don't know if this is the correct email address to be contacting you for
> this sort of thing.
>
>
>
> But I have noticed that in presentation, when I type naive, two dots appear
> above the i. This only appears to happen when I type the word naive and not
> anything else I have typed so far.
>
>
>
> Yours Sincerely,
>
>
>
> Sampath Rajapakse
>
>
The "absolutely" correct spelling of the word naïve has the two dots,
known in English as a dieresis, or in German as an Umlaut, indicating
a change in sound, rather than a diphthong.

--doug

--
Blessed are the peacekeepers...for they shall be shot at from both sides. --A.M. Greeley


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Tom Tom
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Re: two dots above the i in presentation.

Hi :)
+1
This is true and i hadn't noticed LibreOffice was that smart.  It explains why things often look good in LO without it being obvious why.
Thanks and regards from
Tom :)


--- On Tue, 13/3/12, Doug <[hidden email]> wrote:

From: Doug <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] two dots above the i in presentation.
To: [hidden email]
Cc: "Sampath Rajapakse" <[hidden email]>
Date: Tuesday, 13 March, 2012, 4:56

On 03/12/2012 06:57 PM, Sampath Rajapakse wrote:

> Dear Document Foundation,
>
>
>
> I don't know if this is the correct email address to be contacting you for
> this sort of thing.
>
>
>
> But I have noticed that in presentation, when I type naive, two dots appear
> above the i. This only appears to happen when I type the word naive and not
> anything else I have typed so far.
>
>
>
> Yours Sincerely,
>
>
>
> Sampath Rajapakse
>
>
The "absolutely" correct spelling of the word naïve has the two dots,
known in English as a dieresis, or in German as an Umlaut, indicating
a change in sound, rather than a diphthong.

--doug

--
Blessed are the peacekeepers...for they shall be shot at from both sides. --A.M. Greeley


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Brian Barker Brian Barker
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Re: two dots above the i in presentation.

At 00:56 13/03/2012 -0400, Doug McGarrett wrote:
>The "absolutely" correct spelling of the word
>naïve has the two dots, known in English as a
>dieresis, or in German as an Umlaut, indicating
>a change in sound, rather than a diphthong.

For what it's worth, the German for "diaeresis"
appears to be "Trema".  The umlaut looks the
same, but it's a different mark: it is an accent,
whereas the diaeresis is (as you describe) also a diacritic but not an accent.

Brian Barker


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Séamas Ó Brógáin Séamas Ó Brógáin
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Re: two dots above the i in presentation.

Brian wrote:

> For what it's worth, the German for "diaeresis" appears to be "Trema".
> The umlaut looks the same, but it's a different mark: it is an accent,
> whereas the diaeresis is (as you describe) also a diacritic but not an
> accent.

Not quite. “Umlaut” is not a character or a mark but the linguistic
phenomenon whereby a vowel sound changes under the influence of another
vowel (e.g. Haus > Häuser). In German this is marked by a diaeresis (the
two dots), called “trema” in German. Calling the symbol “an umlaut” is a
solecism.




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Tom Tom
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Re: two dots above the i in presentation.

Hi :)
I thought the umlaut was a specific type of such a mark and that there were quite a few different markings, and in different languages, that could change the way a letter sounds?
Regards from
Tom :)



--- On Tue, 13/3/12, Séamas Ó Brógáin <[hidden email]> wrote:

From: Séamas Ó Brógáin <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] two dots above the i in presentation.
To: [hidden email]
Date: Tuesday, 13 March, 2012, 9:47

Brian wrote:

> For what it's worth, the German for "diaeresis" appears to be "Trema".
> The umlaut looks the same, but it's a different mark: it is an accent,
> whereas the diaeresis is (as you describe) also a diacritic but not an
> accent.

Not quite. “Umlaut” is not a character or a mark but the linguistic
phenomenon whereby a vowel sound changes under the influence of another
vowel (e.g. Haus > Häuser). In German this is marked by a diaeresis (the
two dots), called “trema” in German. Calling the symbol “an umlaut” is a
solecism.




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Séamas Ó Brógáin Séamas Ó Brógáin
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Re: two dots above the i in presentation.

Tom wrote:

> I thought the umlaut was a specific type of such a mark and that there
> were quite a few different markings, and in different languages, that
> could change the way a letter sounds?

Diacritical marks are used for lots of different purposes in different
languages though the marks themselves have often been copied from other
languages. The diaeresis was first used for Greek, to show that a vowel
was pronounced separately and not part of a diphthong; this was later
applied to French for the same purpose (hence “naïve”), but the same
mark was later applied to German for umlaut, which was originally shown
by means of a small 〈e〉 over the letter. Just easier to write, I
suppose.



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James Knott James Knott
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Re: two dots above the i in presentation.

In reply to this post by Brian Barker
Brian Barker wrote:

> At 00:56 13/03/2012 -0400, Doug McGarrett wrote:
>> The "absolutely" correct spelling of the word naïve has the two dots,
>> known in English as a dieresis, or in German as an Umlaut, indicating
>> a change in sound, rather than a diphthong.
>
> For what it's worth, the German for "diaeresis" appears to be "Trema".
> The umlaut looks the same, but it's a different mark: it is an accent,
> whereas the diaeresis is (as you describe) also a diacritic but not an
> accent.
>
> Brian Barker
>
>
For those who are interested, it's possible to generate the various
special characters by using the U.S. International keyboard. With it,
you can use the right Alt key to create those characters, such as ü, á,
ẽ, £, € etc. The left Alt key works as usual.

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Cliff Scott Cliff Scott
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Re: two dots above the i in presentation.

** Reply to message from James Knott <[hidden email]> on Tue, 13 Mar
2012 08:18:20 -0400

> Brian Barker wrote:
> > At 00:56 13/03/2012 -0400, Doug McGarrett wrote:
> >> The "absolutely" correct spelling of the word naïve has the two dots,
> >> known in English as a dieresis, or in German as an Umlaut, indicating
> >> a change in sound, rather than a diphthong.
> >
> > For what it's worth, the German for "diaeresis" appears to be "Trema".
> > The umlaut looks the same, but it's a different mark: it is an accent,
> > whereas the diaeresis is (as you describe) also a diacritic but not an
> > accent.
> >
> > Brian Barker
> >
> >
> For those who are interested, it's possible to generate the various
> special characters by using the U.S. International keyboard. With it,
> you can use the right Alt key to create those characters, such as ü, á,
> , £, € etc. The left Alt key works as usual.

Pardon my ignorance, but could you describe how that works or where one would
find out that information? Thanks.

Cliff

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James Knott James Knott
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Re: two dots above the i in presentation.

Cliff Scott wrote:
>> For those who are interested, it's possible to generate the various
>> >  special characters by using the U.S. International keyboard. With it,
>> >  you can use the right Alt key to create those characters, such as ü, á,
>> >  , £, € etc. The left Alt key works as usual.
> Pardon my ignorance, but could you describe how that works or where one would
> find out that information? Thanks.

The exact details depend on the operating system.  In Linux, there's
generally a Personal Settings utility, where you can select the keyboard
type.  In Windows 7, just click on the Start button and type "language"
in the box.  One of the items that will be listed is "Change keboards or
other input method".  In there, select the Keyboards and languages tab
and click on Change keyboards.  Under English (United States), you will
find many different keyboard layouts.  You can select multiple keyboards
if you wish and select the desired one by clicking on the Keyboard icon
on the bar.  You can also select keyboards under other languages, such
as German, but then you have to select between languages by using the
left Alt + Shift keys.  If you just want those special characters
occasionally, under English (United States), add United States -
International.  You can, if you wish, delete the original US keyboard.  
Since this is done at the operating system level, it works for all
applications.

I have no idea about Macs.


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James Knott James Knott
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Re: two dots above the i in presentation.

In reply to this post by Cliff Scott
Cliff Scott wrote:
>> For those who are interested, it's possible to generate the various
>> >  special characters by using the U.S. International keyboard. With it,
>> >  you can use the right Alt key to create those characters, such as ü, á,
>> >  , £, € etc. The left Alt key works as usual.
> Pardon my ignorance, but could you describe how that works or where one would
> find out that information? Thanks.
>
> C

Forgot to mention, you can find info on using that layout here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_keyboard_layout#US-International
The Linux and Windows keyboards are very close, though not an exact
match, to the layout shown.


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Werner F. Bruhin Werner F. Bruhin
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Re: two dots above the i in presentation.

In reply to this post by Cliff Scott
On 13/03/2012 13:47, Cliff Scott wrote:

> ** Reply to message from James Knott<[hidden email]>  on Tue, 13 Mar
> 2012 08:18:20 -0400
>
>> Brian Barker wrote:
>>> At 00:56 13/03/2012 -0400, Doug McGarrett wrote:
>>>> The "absolutely" correct spelling of the word naïve has the two dots,
>>>> known in English as a dieresis, or in German as an Umlaut, indicating
>>>> a change in sound, rather than a diphthong.
>>>
>>> For what it's worth, the German for "diaeresis" appears to be "Trema".
>>> The umlaut looks the same, but it's a different mark: it is an accent,
>>> whereas the diaeresis is (as you describe) also a diacritic but not an
>>> accent.
>>>
>>> Brian Barker
>>>
>>>
>> For those who are interested, it's possible to generate the various
>> special characters by using the U.S. International keyboard. With it,
>> you can use the right Alt key to create those characters, such as ü, á,
>> , £, € etc. The left Alt key works as usual.
>
> Pardon my ignorance, but could you describe how that works or where one would
> find out that information? Thanks.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/goglobal/bb964658.aspx

or a google search with e.g. "alt numpad for symbols"

Werner


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Mark Stanton Mark Stanton
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Re: two dots above the i in presentation.

In reply to this post by Cliff Scott
> Pardon my ignorance, but could you describe how that works or where one would
> find out that information? Thanks.

You hold down the ALt key and, using the numeric keypad only (I think, but
might be wrong), you key in the ASCII code for the letter you want.

Regards
Mark Stanton
One small step for mankind...



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Bad2theBone Bad2theBone
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Re: two dots above the i in presentation.

In reply to this post by James Knott
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Just to mention, the keys that are annotated as "dead keys" actually
do work but you have to hit the space bar after entering the
particular key. ie to type ~ which is a "dead key" I strike the key as
normal followed by the space bar and the character will be entered. At
least that is what I found with my system.

Linux Fedora 16 kernel = 3.2.9-2.fc16.x86_64
LXDE Desktop Environment
LO 3.4.5 (Fedora blend)
using writer for test bed

On 03/13/2012 10:13 AM, James Knott wrote:

> Cliff Scott wrote:
>>> For those who are interested, it's possible to generate the
>>> various
>>>> special characters by using the U.S. International keyboard.
>>>> With it, you can use the right Alt key to create those
>>>> characters, such as
>>> ü, á,
>>>> , £, € etc. The left Alt key works as usual.
>> Pardon my ignorance, but could you describe how that works or
>> where one would find out that information? Thanks.
>>
>> C
>
> Forgot to mention, you can find info on using that layout here:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_keyboard_layout#US-International
>
>  The Linux and Windows keyboards are very close, though not an
> exact match, to the layout shown.
>
>

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James Knott James Knott
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Re: two dots above the i in presentation.

In reply to this post by Mark Stanton
Mark Stanton wrote:
> You hold down the ALt key and, using the numeric keypad only (I think, but
> might be wrong), you key in the ASCII code for the letter you want.
>

That mehtod is unique to Microsoft products.  It doesn't work in Linux.  
Dunno 'bout Mac.


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Johnny Rosenberg Johnny Rosenberg
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Re: two dots above the i in presentation.

In reply to this post by Séamas Ó Brógáin
2012/3/13 Séamas Ó Brógáin <[hidden email]>:

> Tom wrote:
>
>> I thought the umlaut was a specific type of such a mark and that there
>> were quite a few different markings, and in different languages, that
>> could change the way a letter sounds?
>
> Diacritical marks are used for lots of different purposes in different
> languages though the marks themselves have often been copied from other
> languages. The diaeresis was first used for Greek, to show that a vowel
> was pronounced separately and not part of a diphthong; this was later
> applied to French for the same purpose (hence “naïve”), but the same
> mark was later applied to German for umlaut, which was originally shown
> by means of a small 〈e〉 over the letter. Just easier to write, I
> suppose.

Well, the e was, as far as I know, replaced by ¨ because of the
printing quality long ago. The e is always lower case and smaller then
the ”main” letter, and if the paper quality is not fine enough, and
the font is small, all there's left of the e are two dots.


Kind regards

Johnny Rosenberg
ジョニー・ローゼンバーグ

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Johnny Rosenberg Johnny Rosenberg
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Re: two dots above the i in presentation.

In reply to this post by James Knott
2012/3/13 James Knott <[hidden email]>:
> Mark Stanton wrote:
>>
>> You hold down the ALt key and, using the numeric keypad only (I think, but
>> might be wrong), you key in the ASCII code for the letter you want.
>>
>
> That mehtod is unique to Microsoft products.  It doesn't work in Linux.
>  Dunno 'bout Mac.

The Linux/Unix ”equivalent” should be the Ctrl+Shift+u thing:
Press Ctrl+Shift+u, release the keys, then enter the UNICODE, like
2ab3, then press Enter or space or something, and the ”2ab3” will be
replaced by ”⪳”. Doesn't work in the web browser Opera, which use
another method: UNICODE, then press Ctrl+Shift+x and the UNICODE will
immediately be replaced by the corresponding character.

In Linux/Unix you can also use the Compose key (which key to use for
that can easily be set by the user – I use Caps Lock) to create some
characters. It works like this:
Press the Compose key, release it, then enter two or three characters.
In my case, since I use Caps Lock for Compose, it looks like this:
Caps Lock oc → ©
Caps Lock --. → – (n-dash)
Caps Lock --- → — (m-dash)
Caps Lock oo → °
Caps Lock oa → å
Caps Lock "a → ä
Caps Lock "o → ö
Caps Lock ,c → ç
Caps Lock => ⇒
Caps Lock .. → …
and so on.


Kind regards

Johnny Rosenberg
ジョニー・ローゼンバーグ


Kind regards

Johnny Rosenberg
ジョニー・ローゼンバーグ

>
>
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doug-2 doug-2
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Re: two dots above the i in presentation.

In reply to this post by Cliff Scott
On 03/13/2012 08:47 AM, Cliff Scott wrote:

> ** Reply to message from James Knott<[hidden email]>  on Tue, 13 Mar
> 2012 08:18:20 -0400
>
>> Brian Barker wrote:
>>> At 00:56 13/03/2012 -0400, Doug McGarrett wrote:
>>>> The "absolutely" correct spelling of the word naïve has the two dots,
>>>> known in English as a dieresis, or in German as an Umlaut, indicating
>>>> a change in sound, rather than a diphthong.
>>> For what it's worth, the German for "diaeresis" appears to be "Trema".
>>> The umlaut looks the same, but it's a different mark: it is an accent,
>>> whereas the diaeresis is (as you describe) also a diacritic but not an
>>> accent.
>>>
>>> Brian Barker
>>>
>>>
>> For those who are interested, it's possible to generate the various
>> special characters by using the U.S. International keyboard. With it,
>> you can use the right Alt key to create those characters, such as ü, á,
>> , £, € etc. The left Alt key works as usual.
> Pardon my ignorance, but could you describe how that works or where one would
> find out that information? Thanks.
>
> Cliff
>
I don't think the right alt key works "out of the box" --you'd have to
modify it to be a Compose key.  You could also make the right ctrl key
to be Compose, or the right Microsoft key, if your k/b has one.  In
Linux, there's usually a command somewhere that will make a compose
key; in Windows, you can download a freebie called "AllChars" which
does the almost same thing. (The key will still work as Ctrl for other
functions.)

The way it works:  You momentarily hit Compose, then fairly quickly in
succession you hit the letter you want to modify and something that
looks like the mark you want to modify it with.  (The order of the
letter and the mark doesn't matter.)  You can get all the usual
European diacritical marks, plus the €, the ¥ the £, the ¢, the
German ß, and ½, ⅓, ¼, °, Greek ų and probably a few things I
forgot. The ß and the ° are made by striking the desired key twice
after Compose. The fractions by  Compose 1 2, and so on.

The compose key will work for virtually any test, including the
console, email, LO, whatever you have.

--doug

--
Blessed are the peacekeepers...for they shall be shot at from both sides. --A.M. Greeley


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James Knott James Knott
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Re: two dots above the i in presentation.

Doug wrote:
> I don't think the right alt key works "out of the box" --you'd have to
> modify it to be a Compose key.  You could also make the right ctrl key
> to be Compose, or the right Microsoft key, if your k/b has one.

You just have to enable the U.S. - International keyboard, as I
mentioned in another note.

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Cliff Scott Cliff Scott
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Re: two dots above the i in presentation.

In reply to this post by Mark Stanton
** Reply to message from Mark Stanton <[hidden email]> on Tue, 13 Mar
2012 16:39:33 -0000

> > Pardon my ignorance, but could you describe how that works or where one would
> > find out that information? Thanks.
>
> You hold down the ALt key and, using the numeric keypad only (I think, but
> might be wrong), you key in the ASCII code for the letter you want.

I seem to recall something like that from long ago. Thanks!

Cliff

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